From arthurfaria at projesom.com.br  Mon Oct  2 05:54:40 2000
From: arthurfaria at projesom.com.br (Arthur Faria Jr.)
Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2000 00:54:40 -0300
Subject: New Brazilian stories on the Web!
Message-ID: <000e01c02c25$d26943e0$adabfbc8@default>

    Hi, All!

At http://www.projesom.com.br/afaria/b_fethry/

you will find the last part of "Donald Duck's Marriage"
(B 870024, 13 pages)

Enjoy!

     Tchau,
     -- Arthur.




From kyrimis at cti.gr  Mon Oct  2 07:35:05 2000
From: kyrimis at cti.gr (Kriton Kyrimis)
Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2000 08:35:05 +0300 (EET DST)
Subject: KOMIX #148
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.21.0010020833410.20527-100000@poseidon>

Here's what's in the October issue of Komix:

* A cover based on the Black Knight story, by an unknown artist. I have put a
  scan in http://dias.cti.gr/~kyrimis/pics/komix148.jpg
* A 1+ page editorial, replacing this month's letters page, titled "Carl Barks
  doesn't live here any more", subtitled "The great Duck Man has entered the
  Pantheon of immortals forever".
* A two-page article titled "Out of the pages of fiction, Rosa's Black Night
  is" "A charismatic burglar".
* A 1+ page article titled "The universe of outlaws", subtitled "From Barks
  Beagle Boys to Rosa's Arpin Lusene..."
* Don Rosa's "The Black Night"
* A two-page article titled "The dinosaurs of the new millennium", subtitled
  "From Winsor McCay to the digital magic of 2000".
* A one-page article titled "Created by the pioneer Winsor McCay, Gertie was"
  "The first dinosaur of the big screen".
* Carl Barks' "Knight in Shining Armor".
* A two-page article titled "Gulliver in the land of Mickey Mouse", subtitled
  "A fictional character in the land of animation".
* "Gulliver's Travel", drawn by Paul Murry.
* A 2+ page article titled "Disney and Eisenstein", subtitled "Sergei
  Eisenstein tells of his meeting with Walt Disney".
* "The History of Soccer", written by Bob Foster and drawn by the Jaime Diaz
  studio.
-- 
	Kriton	(e-mail: kyrimis at cti.gr)
	      	(WWW:    http://dias.cti.gr/~kyrimis)
-----
"In this world we have an honourable tradition of tactical withdrawal."
-----




From kyrimis at cti.gr  Mon Oct  2 07:36:17 2000
From: kyrimis at cti.gr (Kriton Kyrimis)
Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2000 08:36:17 +0300 (EET DST)
Subject: Carl Barks doesn't live here any more
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.21.0010020835110.20553-100000@poseidon>

[I'm posting a translation of the article about Carl Barks' death from
this month's issue of Komix. There's some pretty strong stuff in here,
so I hope that you forgive me for not not going through the text to
correct any spelling errors I may have made while translating on the fly.]

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    The great Duck Man has entered the Pantheon of immortals forever

              CARL BARKS DOESN'T LIVE HERE ANY MORE


  Carl Barks is no longer with us. He passed away in his home in Grants'
  Pass, Oregon in August 25. The news of this loss filled the entire
  world with sorrow and was announced from all the media throught the
  planet... And this was to be expected, as we all were his children.


In March next year, the great Carl Barks would have completed a century of
life, and we had already been preparing to celebrate in a fitting manner.
Fate, however, wanted things to be different, and uncle Carl, a little before
completing his hundredth year, flew above th clouds for a voyage on the wings
of his beloved ducks... For all of us who got to love comics through his
stories, uncle Carl was one of our own people. Even when we made this
magazine, a magazine inspired from his work, we had a picture of him in our
minds, thumbing through it and smiling in satisfaction. We still think of him
in such a manner... Smiling in the company of his ducks, satisfied for the
unique work that he left us.


THE LIFE AND TIMES OF BARKS

Unknown to the wide public until the seventies, the "good artist"--as readers
of the fifties and sicties, who didn't know his name, called him--was born on
March 27, 1901, began working in Walt Disney's Studios in 1935 and soon rose
to become a basic member of the team that created the most enjoyable of Donald
Duck cartoons. In 1943 he dedicated himself exclusively to comics and, until
1966, the year he retired from action in the field of the ninth art, he wrote
and drew more than six thousand pages full of humor, adventure, and mainly an
original comic poetry that marked the history of American comics indelibly.


POETRY IN BARKS' WORK

Barks gave a complex, almost human personality to Donald Duck and set up an
entire world around him. His imagination gave birth to numerous new characters
that came to bring life to thw world of the most famous duck in the world: his
eternal fiancee, Daisy, lucky cousin Gladstone, inventor Gyro Gearloose, teh
Beagle Boys, and, most important, Scrooge McDuck, Donald's extremely rich
uncle, who soon became the central figure of Barks' world.

This world of Barks is a comic and poetic reflection of the real world in
which the "good artist" was living. Injecting the humorous "realism" of
cartoons with references to history, classic literature, world mythology, and
the epic of the great explorations, Carl Barks slowly set up a world of his
own, where the boundaries between and increasingly more pedantic reality and
imagination were becoming less and less distinguishable. The "good artist"
did not just give human characters to his heroes; he taught his readers to see
the world through more "duckish" eyes, to search for a nostalgic and merry
magic, even in the most pedantic aspects of everyday life.


FROM HERE TO ETERNITY

For the heroic crew of _Komix_, Carl Barks was not just one of the great
artists of the golden age of American comics. He was a distant uncle... That
aged uncle with the smile of a child and the sparkling gaze who made us laugh
and daydream, when he would take us on his knees and tell us jokes and stories
about distant lands and lost treasures.

Uncle Carl doesn't live here any more. He is somewhere in heaven. We imagine
him strongly built like a Beagle Boy, elegant like Gladstone, with a smile
bursting through his face as he is making up new jokes and new stories about
ducks, distant lands, and burried treasures... And, maybe, he is even coming
at night to tell them in our dreams... We imagine him fit and well-dressed,
with that old-fashioned nobility, that gentleness of the artists of old times,
sculpting clouds: perhaps that cloud over there that looks like Donald has
been sculpted by him. Good-bye, uncle Carl. Thank you.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

	Kriton	(e-mail: kyrimis at cti.gr)
	      	(WWW:    http://dias.cti.gr/~kyrimis)
-----
"In this world we have an honourable tradition of tactical withdrawal."
-----




From kyrimis at cti.gr  Mon Oct  2 07:37:15 2000
From: kyrimis at cti.gr (Kriton Kyrimis)
Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2000 08:37:15 +0300 (EET DST)
Subject: Articles from Komix #147
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.21.0010020836220.20561-100000@poseidon>

I am posting the translation of two articles from last month's issue of
Komix, which I believe are of interest to the list. [As usual, comments
in square brackets are my own.]

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

        From Jules Verne to Don Rosa, the myth remains fascinating
                 JOURNEY TO THE BOWELS OF THE EARTH

  Don Rosa sends Scrooge McDuck and his nephews on an original journey,
  in the footsteps of Jules Verne's characters. Can classic literature
  be a source of inspiration for modern comics?

Scrooge McDuck is perhaps the Duck who has traveled more than anyone else in
the world. The Croesus from Duckburg has traveled from the depths of the
oceans to the peaks of the Andes and from the poles to the heart of Africa, to
make his fortune or to inspect his countless businesses. In the _Universal
Solvent_, Don Rosa sends this character, who has plowed our planet's
surface, on an exciting journey to a place that he hasn't visited since Carl
Barks' adventure *Land Beneath the Ground* (_Komix_ #22), in the center of the
Earth's sphere.


FROM MYTH TO FICTION

Traveling to the bowels of the earth is one of the most fascinating myths of
all time. From the heroes of ancient Greek mythology and the Talmud to Dante's
_Inferno_, the gods, demigods, heroes, and common mortals who have traveled
to the dark innards of the Earth, are countless. However, up until the 18th
century, the motif of this journey had a mainly symbolic importance: bards,
poets or mere story-tellers, who recounted these fantastic voyages, cared
little about how the earth's interior might really look like, as they limited
themselves to placing there more or less mythical, nightmarish forms of the
nether world.

During the age of Enlightenment, the rules of the game change. In 1741, The
Danish writer Ludvig Holberg [my encyclopedia says he was Norwegian]
published in Latin a strange novel titled _Nikolai Klimi iter Subterraneum_
(_Nils Klim's Voyage Beneath the Ground), which was soon translated into most
European languages. It was perhaps the first time in the history of literature
that a writer would send a hero to the bowels of the Earth to describe, not
some mythical Tartarus, but the interior of our planet. It is obvious, of
course, that the writer wasn't a scientist, nor did he care particularly about
his story's verisimilitude. While exploring a mountain in Norway, the novel's
hero, Nils Klim, falls into a chasm and ends up in the Earth's interior, where
he discovers an entire solar system, which appears to obey the laws of gravity
which Isaac Newton had recently formulated(*). After many fantastic
adventures, satirizing real problems of the author's time, the hero falls once
more into a chasm, leading him this time back to the surface of the Earth.


FROM JULES VERNE...

The Danish author's idea was a big success, and a whole bunch of writers
hurried to send their unfortunate heroes into the dark innards of the Earth.
It is obvious that each time the description is different, according to the
scientific views that the author wants to support: for some the Earth is
hiding other worlds inside it, for others the planet's core is red hot,
for others it isn't.

In 1864, what is perhaps the most well-known narrative of the kind, _Journey
to the Center of the Earth_, by Jules Verne, is published. The plot is more or
less well known. Professor Otto Lidenbrock discovers a mysterious note, where
the 16th century alchemist, Arne Saknussem, revealed the entrance to a cave
leading to the center of the Earth. The professor's expedition will of course
be unable to reach the center of our planet, but will have enough time to
discover an entire world in the Earth's interior, before a volcanic eruption
forces the heroes to reemerge to the surface from the crater of the Stromboli
volcano in Italy.

The novel's interest lies, in part, in the way in which the writer combines a
quite verisimilar, from a scientific point of view, description of the Earth's
interior, with the structure of an adventure story. Apart from some
unavoidable hand-waving and imprecisions, Jules Verne presents in a
consistent and organized manner the scientific data on which he relies and, at
the same time, he manages to give his narrative an interest as a pure work of
fiction.


...TO DON ROSA

In the _Universal Solvent_, Don Rosa executes in a masterly way the good old
classic recipe of Jules Verne and gives a new dimension to the comic adventure
of scientific inspiration. However, Rosa's story little resembles this classic
novel. Jules Verne's heroes were looking for the confirmation or refutation of
some theories, and were discovering, astonished, a whole bunch of mysteries in
the Earth's interior. When, more than a century later, Don Rosa sends the
Ducks on a similar journey, there is no longer anything mysterious about the
Earth's bowels. On the way to the center of the Earth, his heroes don't
discover anything that they couldn't have learned by reading the Junior
Woodchuck Manual or any school encyclopedia.

The scientific data regarding the Earth's structure are, if not verified and
most precise, organically incorporated into the structure of the narrative.
The adventures and gags are inspired from the scientific data that Don had at
his disposal. It could even be that the speed and briefness characterizing
comics narrative is more suited to this kind of scientific-narrative
experimentations than Jules Verne's fictional writing. On the other hand,
unlike older stories of "scientific inspiration", such as _Cash Flow_ or _A
Matter of Some Gravity_, this time Don Rosa gives emphasis to the presentation
of his heroes' character. Bring uncle Scrooge once more face to face with his
own avarice and his adventurer's temperament, at the same time he gives, to
the great satisfaction of Donald's fanatic friends, the opportunity to his
bumbling nephew to prove that he can be a man... um, duck of action, when the
circumstances require it.

If Carl Barks' Scrooge lived in a world where there was still room for
daydreaming and the search for lost treasures, Don Rosa's Scrooge lives in a
world that appears to have lost its magic. There are few corners in the Earth
that are still virgin and unexplored, as for our planet's interior, we can
visit it whenever we want by taking the Eurostar... or the Athens Metro, while
for more information we can open any updated encyclopedia or connect to the
web page of some research center in the Internet. However, To make a fairy
tale, to express such a genuine anxiety about our planet's future and recount
such a human adventure, in a duckish manner--and vice versa--one must have the
sensitivity and talent of a Don Rosa.


(*) Daniel Compere: Un voyage imaginaire de Jules Verne au Centre de la Terre,
Archives des Lettres Modernes No.174, Paris, 1977.


[Side panel]

A SCIENTIFIC ADVENTURE

Unlike some widely spread misconceptions, Jules Verne was not an amateur
scientist, but a professional writer. Just as Don Rosa, the French writer was
looking for inspiration not only in scientific papers, but in the writings of
other writers as well. _Journey to the Center of the Earth_ is full of
references to other books, such as the half-finished _Isaac Lakedem_ [sp?] by
Alexander Dumas or _M.S. Found in a Bottle_ by E.A. Poe.

In the _Universal Solvent_, Don Rosa plays with these two sources of
inspiration. Along with a most precise and clear presentation of the modern
theories on the internal structure of our planet, he finds the opportunity to
also get inspiration from his great masters. The way in which the Ducks return
to the surface of the Earth appears to us to be an improved and more realistic
version of the return of Jules Verne's heroes, a small portrait of whom he
does not fail to draw. The indispensable reference to Carl Barks could not
be missing from the story, either. On the way back, the Ducks meet again the
quaint inhabitants of Terry Fermy from the Duck Man's adventure *Land Beneath
the Ground*, which we read in _Komix_ #22


[Captions]
[p.1, left] Portrait of the great French writer, Jules Verne (1828-1905)
[p.1, right] In the _Universal Solvent_, Don Rosa executes in a masterly Jules
Verne's good old recipe.
[p.2, left] In the _Universal Solvent_, Don Rosa does not fail to make a
reference to the mysterious inhabitants of the subsoil from Carl Barks'
classic adventure, *Land Beneath the Ground* (_Komix_ #22). Above, Barks
original panel, below, from Rosa's story.
[p.2, right] Verne's classic novel became a motion picture: _Voyage to the
Center of the Earth_, with Pat Boone and James Mason. [To be avoided at all
costs, as it takes too many liberties with the story.]

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

            Don Rosa talks to Komix about the Universal Solvent
                        A SCIENTIFIC FAIRY TALE


KOMIX: First of all, how did you get the idea of sending the Ducks to the
bowels of the Earth?

ROSA: Do you find that my story is too similar to a disaster or science
fiction movie for what is a Duck adventure? I agree with you. Anyway, one of
the main themes of the comics that I used to draw when I was little,
exclusively for my own consumption, were caves. It may be natural for one to
be interested in caves, when only a few miles from one's home is the greatest
cave complex in the world, Kentucky's Mammoth Cave!


KOMIX: What about the Universal Solvent?

ROSA: The _Universal Solvent_ was inspired from a story that I wrote  from a
story that I wrote for a fanzine, in 1977, which in turn was inspired from one
of those stories that I used to make for myself, in 1959. I wrote that first
story when I saw the movie _Voyage to the Center of the Earth_. In that movie
there was a volcano, whose crater was a kind of tunnel leading to the center
of the Earth. I was literally grabbed by the idea. I have written an entire
series of stories with my own heroes, based on that idea, during the early
sixties, which no one has ever read apart from me.


KOMIX: Was Jules Verne's classic novel one of the sources of inspiration?

ROSA: Jules Verne's and Edgar Rice Burroughs' novels are enjoyable,
but they are not particularly convincing. Especially today, when we know
with certainty that there is unbearable heat in the Earth's interior. [*]
I wanted to deal with the subject of traveling to the Earth's core in a more
scientific manner. Of course, there are certain exaggerations in my story
regarding certain natural properties, though I tried to deal with the problems
rather than ignore them.


KOMIX: The _Universal Solvent_ is not the only science fiction story that
you've written. How do you go about writing stories such as *Cash Flow*
(_Komix_ #33), *On Stolen Time* (_Komix_ #76), or *A Matter of Some Gravity*
(_Komix_ #141)? Do your studies come in handy?

ROSA: In part. I try, as always, to check the scientific data by looking up
books and calling local universities to ask the experts. For the _Universal
Solvent_, e.g., I called the Louisville University and asked the experts what
would happen if someone reached the center of the Earth. I was assured that
the deeper one moves towards the Earth's interior, the "lighter" he gets, as
his weight decreases, since there is no gravity down there. The force of
gravity is due to the Earth's mass, and in the center of the Earth there are
equal amounts of Earth mass in all directions. Therefore, bodies have no
weight, as equal forces are exerted on them in all directions at the same
time, which cancel each other out. Anyway, for me, the most interesting aspect
of the _Universal Solvent_ is the fact that, as I mentioned earlier, this is
the third time I'm using this basic script. I would also like to add that the
1977 story had a second part. A "villain" manages to get hold of the
_Universal Solvent_ and then lays a coat of solvent on a suit of armor and
becomes invincible. That second part is the inspiration for another Duck
adventure, in which a brilliant robber steals the Solvent and wearing his
armor...


KOMIX: Say no more. The story to which you are referring (*The Black Knight*),
will be published in the October issue of _Komix_!

ROSA. OK. Anyway, it seems that I've been returning to this story every
eighteen years. Therefore, I assume that if I remake a third "installment",
you will have to wait until 2013 before you can publish it!

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

	Kriton	(e-mail: kyrimis at cti.gr)
	      	(WWW:    http://dias.cti.gr/~kyrimis)
-----
"In this world we have an honourable tradition of tactical withdrawal."
-----




From DGE at ECN.egmont.com  Mon Oct  2 11:21:33 2000
From: DGE at ECN.egmont.com (Gerstein, David DK - ECN)
Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2000 11:21:33 +0200 
Subject: Unknown Black Knight artist in KOMIX
Message-ID: <A97F90D45682D41183FF00508BF3A6810646DD@cphegtd1-xch03.egt.egmont.com>

	Hey Kriton (and everyone),

	That great Black Knight cover, the artist of whom you didn't know,
was in fact drawn by Marco Rota for the Italian ZIO PAPERONE.
	Nice-looking piece of work it is, too.

	David Gerstein
	<dge at ecn.egmont.com>



From H.W.Fluks at kpn.com  Mon Oct  2 16:26:36 2000
From: H.W.Fluks at kpn.com (Fluks, H.W.)
Date: Mon, 02 Oct 2000 15:26:36 +0100
Subject: New Inducks release
Message-ID: <59063B5B4D98D311BC0D0001FA7E452202075E16@l04.research.kpn.com>

Michael Rhode - I mean wrote:

> Can anyone use INDUCKS and give me the reprint info on Mummy 
> Ring?

For a next time, search for it on one of the Inducks search pages, at
http://stp.ling.uu.se/~starback/dcml/inducks/
or
http://www2.ec-lille.fr/willot/coa/cgi-bin/search.uk.php

We just uploaded a new version of the Inducks database, including:

- many new publications in various European (and Australian) countries
- new credit information for lots of S-coded and D-coded stories, and Gold
Key comics
- a big new Finnish index
- hundreds of daily and Sunday strips added
- lots of stuff I already forgot about

As always: thanks to everyone involved. They are too many to sum up here!

The webpages that lead you to printable Inducks listings and background
information (http://members.nbci.com/bolderbast/) has not been updated yet.

--Harry.



From H.W.Fluks at kpn.com  Mon Oct  2 16:44:36 2000
From: H.W.Fluks at kpn.com (Fluks, H.W.)
Date: Mon, 02 Oct 2000 15:44:36 +0100
Subject: Rosa in Germany
Message-ID: <59063B5B4D98D311BC0D0001FA7E452202075E17@l04.research.kpn.com>

News from Ehapa:

Don Rosa will be in Germany, in the "Kaufhaus" chain Karstadt:

16.10.2000, 15-17 h Giessen
17.10.2000, 13-15 h Essen
17.10.2000, 16-18 h Bochum
18.10.2000, 13-15 h Berlin Spandau
18.10.2000, 16-18 h Berlin M?llerstra?e
19.10.2000, 12-14 h Wertheim Kurf?rstendamm
19.10.2000, 15-17 h Berlin Steglitz
20.10.2000, 13-15 h Hamburger Stra?e
20.10.2000, 16-18 h Elbeeinkaufszentrum
22.10.2000, 12-14 h Buchmesse Frankfurt, Egmont Ehapa, Halle 4.1., Stand P
101
23.10.2000, 14-16 h Wiesbaden
24.10.2000, 12-14 h Stuttgart

(I know this was posted here before, but this must be the definitive
schedule.)

--Harry.
Harry Fluks, Leidschendam, die Niederlande



From sdebeer at talk21.com  Mon Oct  2 20:34:29 2000
From: sdebeer at talk21.com (sdebeer@talk21.com)
Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2000 20:34:29 BST
Subject: Horace Horsecollar
Message-ID: <20001002194134.XTAI2406.t21mta02-app.talk21.com@t21mtaV-lrs>


Am I the only person who is interested in the Horace Horsecollar & Clarabelle Cow Characters? I seem  to be  in a minority of one in this! 

The DCML & Hoozoo pages have good descriptions but there do not seem to be any web pages  which reproduce stories about these characters or which give them a particular focus. The Disney Company sem to have given up on these characters. 

I have looked at http://members.forez.com/livia/ which is an excellant site but I would particularly like to see Clarabelle's boarding house which haven't been able to find on the web or reproduced in hard copy. I live in the UK where there seems to be a limited interest in Disney comics anyway. Any ideas? 



--------------------
talk21 your FREE portable and private address on the net at http://www.talk21.com




From H.W.Fluks at kpn.com  Tue Oct  3 11:08:04 2000
From: H.W.Fluks at kpn.com (Fluks, H.W.)
Date: Tue, 03 Oct 2000 10:08:04 +0100
Subject: Horace Horsecollar
Message-ID: <59063B5B4D98D311BC0D0001FA7E452202075E1F@l04.research.kpn.com>

sdebeer at talk21.com:

> I live in the UK where 
> there seems to be a limited interest in Disney comics anyway. 
> Any ideas? 

Emigrate to the continent. 8-)

--Harry.



From anders_sivebaek at nns.dk  Tue Oct  3 13:45:55 2000
From: anders_sivebaek at nns.dk (Anders Christian=?ISO-8859-1?Q?_Siveb=BEk?=)
Date: Tue, 03 Oct 2000 12:45:55 +0100
Subject: The Return of the 3 Cabelleroes
In-Reply-To: <200010031000.MAA13166@numerus.ling.uu.se>
References: <200010031000.MAA13166@numerus.ling.uu.se>
Message-ID: <fc.0064b568001425653b9aca0043a107a6.142571@nns.dk>

	Hi friends
I just got the 1st part of Don's new stories. You have really got
something to look forward too!!!

That's all i have to say, except for one thing I haven't mentioned: 
Rest in peace, Carl

Yours
AC





From DGE at ECN.egmont.com  Tue Oct  3 13:49:37 2000
From: DGE at ECN.egmont.com (Gerstein, David DK - ECN)
Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2000 13:49:37 +0200 
Subject: Horace Horsecollar
Message-ID: <A97F90D45682D41183FF00508BF3A6810646E3@cphegtd1-xch03.egt.egmont.com>

	Hey!

	You're not the only person interested in Horace and Clarabelle.
We're using them a lot these days at Egmont - in particular Horace, whose
enormous ego has lately made him quite popular with our readers (if a little
trying for Mickey!). It's indeed very disappointing that the comics are no
longer published in the UK, particularly given their rich history there in
the 1930s-1950s.
	"Clarabelle's Boarding House" was, however, reprinted in Britain
before Disney comics there stopped. It was in the Daily Mirror's DISNEY
MIRROR supplement: serialized on the back cover, three strips to an issue
from #76 to #82 (1992) under the new title "Clarabelle's Hotel". Hope you
can find it - some comic shops have back issues of that.

	Best wishes,
	David



From fstajano at uk.research.att.com  Tue Oct  3 16:07:13 2000
From: fstajano at uk.research.att.com (Frank Stajano)
Date: Tue, 03 Oct 2000 15:07:13 +0100
Subject: Horace Horsecollar
In-Reply-To: <A97F90D45682D41183FF00508BF3A6810646E3@cphegtd1-xch03.egt.
 egmont.com>
Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20001003150638.02f4efe8@localhost>

At 2000-10-03 13:49 +0200, Gerstein, David DK - ECN wrote:
>can find it - some comic shops have back issues of that.

Really?!? In the UK? Where??????

  Frank (filologo disneyano)  http://www.uk.research.att.com/~fms/




From cien2 at cbn.net.id  Tue Oct  3 04:26:02 2000
From: cien2 at cbn.net.id (Arie Fachrisal)
Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2000 09:26:02 +0700
Subject: Horace and some queries.
References: <200010031000.MAA13145@numerus.ling.uu.se>
Message-ID: <001301c02ce1$687c1540$a11c9eca@kulim>

> From: sdebeer at talk21.com
> Am I the only person who is interested in the Horace Horsecollar &
Clarabelle Cow Characters? I seem  to be  in a minority of one in this!

I'm not a big fans of those two characters you mentioned but yeah, i do
missed their appearance in the newer Mickey stories. btw since i see that
the "new" Horace don't wear a horsecollar anymore, does it make him caleed
Horace "only" ? ;-)

And some queries i'd like to ask.
The olympic's over and it's great show. But that's not what i want to bug
you all about. It's a certain thing that my sis heard when she watched some
events in the olympic. She said that she heard of a person named John
Stephen Akhwari of tanzania who is a marathon runner. He competed in a
marathon competition and when the race is started, he fell down in the
middle of the event. He got up, and keeps running again. But he fell down
for the second time again, this time injured his leg. The injury was said to
be "very painful" and nearly broke his leg. He got up again for the second
time and keeps runnin'. No, he didn't make it to be the 1st, am i tellin' a
miracle here??? ;-)
No, but with a bad injured leg, he keeps on running. Needless to say, he was
not to be called "running" with a bad injured leg like that. But he kept on
running. And he kept on running after all other contestants reached the
finish line. And when the gold, silver, and bronze medals were given to the
approriate runners, he WAS still running in that event. And finally, one
hour AFTER the medals were given out, he reached the finish line.
Don't know about you guys, but i found this story quite touching and the
commentators were also touched and said that at that time and only that
time, the world can finally see the true spirit of olympic.

Barks' fans will recalled a story by Barks titled "Olympics' tryouts" at
this very moment. I thought that, wow, this guy sure is like Donald Duck in
that story. Wonder he may have read that Barks' story and gave him the idea
to keep on running, finishing the race just to prove to himself that he can
finish the contest. I was quickly shocked again when my sis said that IF she
heard right, the event takes place in 1950s olympic.
I was wandering if maybe Barks got inspired by this event and wrote the
story based on that event. Or maybe this is just a very simple coincidence.
Any answers will be highly appreciated as i want to write an essay on this
one if what i'm guessin' is right, hopefully it's right.

Thanks in advance,
Arie Fachrisal





From walterc at satlink.com  Tue Oct  3 13:59:41 2000
From: walterc at satlink.com (Walter Carzon)
Date: Tue, 03 Oct 2000 08:59:41 -0300
Subject: disney comics
Message-ID: <20001003120334Z565411-100970+159@merganser.its.uu.se>

Hello, sorry but my english is very poor. 
So, I'm speak spanish. 

Mi nombre es Walter Carzon, soy dibujante de comics de Warner Bros y Disney.
Mi pais es Argentina, y llegue por casualidad a este sitio donde vi que
tienen una lista de los dibujantes de Disney donde incluyen mi nombre, por
ese motivo quisiera agradecerles y ofrecerles, si lo desean, que les envie
informacion de mi trabajo e inclusive algunos archivos con ilustraciones.
Para Disney estuve dibujando los comics de The Little Mermaid, Duck Tales,
TaleSpin, Disney Afternoon, y en activity books, dibuje a los personajes de
las peliculas, The Beauty and The Beast, Tarzan, Toy Story 2, entre otros.
Cualquier cosa que necesiten no duden en escribirme, y nuevamente les pido
disculpas que no pude escribirles la carta en ingles.

Un gran abrazo y gracias.

Walter Carzon
Artist

my site: www.duendesdelsur.com
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From kyrimis at cti.gr  Wed Oct  4 12:27:07 2000
From: kyrimis at cti.gr (Kriton Kyrimis)
Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2000 13:27:07 +0300 (EET DST)
Subject: John Stephen Akhwari
In-Reply-To: <200010041000.MAA08728@numerus.ling.uu.se>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.21.0010041308200.20200-100000@dias>

ARIE:

A quick search using google pointed me to
http://www.fortune.com/fortune/sections/olympics/olympics.htm, which
begins by describing the events you mentioned. However, these events
took place in 1968, so they cannot have influenced Barks' story.

A similar, though less extreme, event took place during the Barcelona
Olympics, when a runner barely managed to finish the race, staggering
through the last few meters and collapsing immediately after crossing
the finish line.

In one sense, this is what the Olympics are supposed to be about: pushing
yourself to the limit and beyond, unlike what happens in many athletics
competitions these days, where runners are payed to play the part of
"rabbits", running at a pace that they cannot maintain, then abandoning
the race without completing it, in some misguided notion that this will
push the other athletes to run faster and break the record.

	Kriton	(e-mail: kyrimis at cti.gr)
	      	(WWW:    http://dias.cti.gr/~kyrimis)
-----
"Everyone in the universe has free will, Benny.
 Predestination wouldn't work otherwise."
-----




From marcobar at ds.unifi.it  Wed Oct  4 12:26:11 2000
From: marcobar at ds.unifi.it (Marco Barlotti)
Date: Wed, 04 Oct 2000 12:26:11 +0200
Subject: New version of the Italian Disney story index on-line
In-Reply-To: <200010041000.MAA08728@numerus.ling.uu.se>
Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20001004122611.00970d40@ds.unifi.it>

The on-line index of Disney stories produced by Italy (a. k. a. FSB) has
been updated on

http://marcobar.cce.unifi.it/DisneyIndex


     Marco






From sgarcia at uf-isf.es  Wed Oct  4 12:54:06 2000
From: sgarcia at uf-isf.es (Santiago Garcia Banhos)
Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2000 12:54:06 +0200
Subject: Walter Carzon
In-Reply-To: <200010041000.MAA08728@numerus.ling.uu.se>
Message-ID: <002101c02df1$6a8197a0$34446f0a@ufisf.es>

Please allow me to translate to English our new member Walter Carzon's 
introducing posting (I'm sure he won't mind if I dare to):
----------------------------------------------------------------------

My name is Walter Carzon, I'm a comics drawer for Waner Bross and Disney.
My country is Argentina, and I got to this site just by chance, and I 
noticed there was a list with Disney drawers including my own name! So,
I'd wish to thank you and offer you, if you want, to send you some info
about my work and even some images of my drawings.

I made for Disney The Little Mermaid, Duck Tales, TaleSpin and Disney 
Afternoon stories. And for Activity Books I drawed characters from Beauty 
and the Beast, Tarzan and Toy Story 2, amongst others.

Anything you should want from me, please don't hesitate to email me. 
And once again, I beg your pardon not to write in English.

A great embrace, and thank you.

Walter Carzon
Artist
----------------------------------------------------------------------

I think we should welcome this new member, and thank him for his kind
offering. Bienvenido a la lista, Walter, y gracias por tu amable 
ofreciemiento.

Maybe Argentinean Member Fabio Blanco should get in touch with him 
for further contacts...

Santiago.




From H.W.Fluks at kpn.com  Wed Oct  4 14:31:51 2000
From: H.W.Fluks at kpn.com (Fluks, H.W.)
Date: Wed, 04 Oct 2000 13:31:51 +0100
Subject: New Inducks release
Message-ID: <59063B5B4D98D311BC0D0001FA7E452202075E51@l04.research.kpn.com>

I wrote:

> We just uploaded a new version of the Inducks database [..]

> The webpages that lead you to printable Inducks listings and 
> background
> information (http://members.nbci.com/bolderbast/) have not 
> been updated yet.

They have been updated now.

--Harry.



From halvor.sandven at dnb.no  Wed Oct  4 14:57:20 2000
From: halvor.sandven at dnb.no (Sandven, Halvor)
Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2000 14:57:20 +0200 
Subject: Autumn-reading
Message-ID: <20001004125957Z618503-76258+68@merganser.its.uu.se>

Hello!

Some of the issues in the norwegian weekly have been 96 pages in the
summers. I am very glad to see that this year we also got two 96-pages
issues in the autumn, where the extra pages are called 'autumn-reading' The
first issue included a reprint of the Murry-story 'The Mysterious Knight
Rider' (MM 119). This may not be Murry at his very best, but still, it's a
nice story. The last issue was the best one. This issue includes the Marco
Rota story 'Paperino e la palla misteriosa' (AT 292), where Donald discovers
a 'ball' that is really a living being. This is a very good story that has
never been printed in Norway before. The first panel in this story looked
very familiar, it remindes me of a Barks-story. Beside the extra pages, this
issue also included the first part of Rosa's 'Return of the 3 Caballeros'.
The story made me think about Donald's situation a bit. I have never
realized that he may be a bit lonely at times, but it makes sense, because
we seldom see that he has any really good friends. Of cause, HDL may be his
friends, but he's also their 'parent' making their relationship a bit
special. He's relation with Scrooge may also be a bit up and down, as
Scrooge for the most part looks upon Donald as just a cheap worker. He's
also disgusted by Donald's way of living. Even so, I believe that they can
be friends, as several of Barks stories show us that their relationship
isn't really that bad. This is seldom seen in Rosa's stories though.
Donald's relation with Gladstone are seldom very good, as Gladstone is
Donalds rival. Gladstone luck also iriitates Donald a lot, making him a bit
jealous. Even so, I'm certain that we have seen moments where they can
co-exist. Maybe this is a topic for closer study. Daisy is Donald
girlfriend, and she does count, even if HDL don't think so. However, she is
not always very faithful, as she also dates Gladstone on several occasions.
I would say that Grandma Duck is Donald's friend, as it looks like she means
much to Donald, and also that she cares about him. She is, however, an other
generation than Donald, and they may not have much of the same interests.
Maybe Gyro is one of Donald's best friends, but he's always to busy making
invetions, and does not have much time for a social life. I have not read
the last part of Rosa's story yet, but it would be nice to see more of his
two Caballeros-friends in other stories, as I believe that Donald could need
a couple of good friends who can meet every now and then, and go out an just
have fun. This could make some good stories too.
An other topic I just had to get off my chest: Some weeks ago there was
something called the 'Raptus-festival' in my hometown Bergen. Among
celebrities like Mort Walker, there also was one of my favourite artists,
namely Flemming Andersen from Denmark. Great was my disappointment when I
got sick, and could not attend to this festival, as I had really looked
forward to get a chance to chat with this excellent artist. Most of his work
is published in the pocket-books, and very often his stories is worth the
price of these books alone. He draws a very funny Donald, and almost every
page makes me snicker. Look out for his work, he really deserves more
recognition than he's got.
Regarding Horace and Clarabelle, I find these new stories for the most part
very amusing, and I hope to see lots more of these. I also applaud the use
of not-so-known characters, as I think there's a bit too much
Donald-oriented stories in the weeklies today.
---Halvor


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From alipio at ufpel.tche.br  Wed Oct  4 17:24:06 2000
From: alipio at ufpel.tche.br (Alipio d'Oliveira Coelho)
Date: Wed, 04 Oct 2000 12:24:06 -0300
Subject: DCML digest, Vol 1 #278 - 5 msgs
References: <200010041000.MAA08737@numerus.ling.uu.se>
Message-ID: <39DB4B96.56FC66EE@ufpel.tche.br>

dcml-admin at stp.ling.uu.se wrote:

>
> Message: 5
> Date:   Tue, 03 Oct 2000 08:59:41 -0300
> Subject: disney comics
> From: "Walter Carzon" <walterc at satlink.com>
> To: dcomics at stp.ling.uu.se
>
>
> Hello, sorry but my english is very poor.
> So, I'm speak spanish.
>
> Mi nombre es Walter Carzon, soy dibujante de comics de Warner Bros y Disney.
> Mi pais es Argentina, y llegue por casualidad a este sitio donde vi que
> tienen una lista de los dibujantes de Disney donde incluyen mi nombre, por
> ese motivo quisiera agradecerles y ofrecerles, si lo desean, que les envie
> informacion de mi trabajo e inclusive algunos archivos con ilustraciones.
> Para Disney estuve dibujando los comics de The Little Mermaid, Duck Tales,
> TaleSpin, Disney Afternoon, y en activity books, dibuje a los personajes de
> las peliculas, The Beauty and The Beast, Tarzan, Toy Story 2, entre otros.
> Cualquier cosa que necesiten no duden en escribirme, y nuevamente les pido
> disculpas que no pude escribirles la carta en ingles.
> Un gran abrazo y gracias.
> Walter Carzon
> Artist
> my site: www.duendesdelsur.com

Well, I will try to translate this message:
My name is Walter Carzon and I draw comics for Warner Bros. and Disney.
I live in
Argentina, and found this site where I saw the list of artits of Disney
comics and my
name in it. I woul like to thank all and, if you want, I can send
informations of my
work, including some files with ilustrations.
I had draw for Disney the comics The Little Mermaid, Duck Tales,
TaleSpin, Disney
Afternoon and  on "activity books" I draw the characters for the movies
The Beauty and
The Beast, Tarzan, Toy Story 2, and others.
Anything you need, please, write to me, and again I am so sorry for not
write in
English.
Thank you.
Walter Carzon.
..........................................................................................................................................

 I think that's all. Sorry for any bad translation.
Alipio.
alipio at ufpel.tche.br



From arttu_salminen at hotmail.com  Wed Oct  4 19:09:28 2000
From: arttu_salminen at hotmail.com (Arttu Salminen)
Date: Wed, 04 Oct 2000 19:09:28 EEST
Subject: Don Rosa's non-Disney comics
Message-ID: <F685UxP9Fekzabtneqd00005f44@hotmail.com>

Hi!
I don't know if I should ask this question, because it's not about Disney
comics, but I'm still going to ask it, because it's about Disney
comics-creator's non-Disney comics, and because I really want to know it:

Don Rosa himself told me in a internet chat in www.akuankka.fi, that he's
non-Disney comics, Pertwillaby Papers and Captain Kentucky, are going to
be published by some Danish publisher. Their going to publish them in two
books wich will be sold in one. The books are in english.
Does enyone know when are the book going to be published (or are they
already published?) and where can I buy/order them from?
_________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at 
http://profiles.msn.com.




From wolfsong at mpinet.net  Wed Oct  4 21:15:22 2000
From: wolfsong at mpinet.net (John Chadwick)
Date: Wed, 04 Oct 2000 15:15:22 -0400
Subject: Walter Carzon
References: <002101c02df1$6a8197a0$34446f0a@ufisf.es>
Message-ID: <39DB81C9.ECE7F302@mpinet.net>

I know your work; I believe I've read some Animaniacs and Pinky and the
Brain stories that you drew.

Santiago Garcia Banhos wrote:

> Please allow me to translate to English our new member Walter Carzon's
> introducing posting (I'm sure he won't mind if I dare to):
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> My name is Walter Carzon, I'm a comics drawer for Waner Bross and Disney.
> My country is Argentina, and I got to this site just by chance, and I
> noticed there was a list with Disney drawers including my own name! So,
> I'd wish to thank you and offer you, if you want, to send you some info
> about my work and even some images of my drawings.
>
> I made for Disney The Little Mermaid, Duck Tales, TaleSpin and Disney
> Afternoon stories. And for Activity Books I drawed characters from Beauty
> and the Beast, Tarzan and Toy Story 2, amongst others.
>
> Anything you should want from me, please don't hesitate to email me.
> And once again, I beg your pardon not to write in English.
>
> A great embrace, and thank you.
>
> Walter Carzon
> Artist
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> I think we should welcome this new member, and thank him for his kind
> offering. Bienvenido a la lista, Walter, y gracias por tu amable
> ofreciemiento.
>
> Maybe Argentinean Member Fabio Blanco should get in touch with him
> for further contacts...
>
> Santiago.
>
> _______________________________________________
> http://stp.ling.uu.se/mailman/listinfo/dcml

--
Set aside time every day to check if your fly is up.
    -Dale Gribble





From DGE at ECN.egmont.com  Wed Oct  4 21:26:07 2000
From: DGE at ECN.egmont.com (Gerstein, David DK - ECN)
Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2000 21:26:07 +0200 
Subject: Horace and some queries.
Message-ID: <A97F90D45682D41183FF00508BF3A6810646F3@cphegtd1-xch03.egt.egmont.com>

> 	Hey Arie!
> 
> >I'm not a big fans of those two characters you mentioned but yeah, i do
> >missed their appearance in the newer Mickey stories. btw since i see that
> >the "new" Horace don't wear a horsecollar anymore, does it make him
> caleed
> >Horace "only" ? ;-)
> 
> 	Huh? But...
> 	Horace *does* wear his horsecollar a lot of the time in new
> D-stories. It's just that it looks a little silly combined with some
> outfits (like his mechanic's gear), so he doesn't - and shouldn't - wear
> it *all* the time.
> 	Let's see: he's had major roles in Egmont weeklies #4, 7, 14, 17,
> 19, 30, 33, and 39 so far in Scandinavia this year, and he wore his collar
> in six of the eight stories. That's enough for me.
	Even in the 1930s, there were times when he didn't wear it, like
when he worked as a grocery clerk in some Gottfredson stories. It looks good
sometimes and I personally think it's cool, but it's okay to have variation,
too.

> 	David Gerstein
> 	<dge at ecn.egmont.com>



From DGE at ECN.egmont.com  Wed Oct  4 21:34:22 2000
From: DGE at ECN.egmont.com (Gerstein, David DK - ECN)
Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2000 21:34:22 +0200 
Subject: Clarification
Message-ID: <A97F90D45682D41183FF00508BF3A6810646F4@cphegtd1-xch03.egt.egmont.com>

	Arie, everyone...

	My last letter (about Horace) looked a little weird. Some of the
quoted material wasn't Arie's, but my own.
	The problem came because I first accidentally sent the message only
to Arie, then tried to forward it to the list. The forwarding process
screwed it up.
	At least it was still readable, and it should be fairly obvious
whose statements are/were whose...

	Till later,
	David



From sonia_dyer at am.exch.hp.com  Wed Oct  4 23:15:20 2000
From: sonia_dyer at am.exch.hp.com (DYER,SONIA (HP-Cupertino,ex1))
Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2000 15:15:20 -0600 
Subject: Picsou web URL
Message-ID: <B30C9DBF55CDD3119CA30090277A764B81B852@xcup03.cup.hp.com>


Did anyone have an answer to a recent question someone asked about whether
there's a URL for subscribing to Picsou?  I haven't been able to find one,
even with a search engine.  

	Thanks,
	      Sonia



From sonia_dyer at am.exch.hp.com  Wed Oct  4 23:26:29 2000
From: sonia_dyer at am.exch.hp.com (DYER,SONIA (HP-Cupertino,ex1))
Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2000 15:26:29 -0600 
Subject: disney comics (Walter Carzon) 
Message-ID: <B30C9DBF55CDD3119CA30090277A764B81B853@xcup03.cup.hp.com>

Bienvenidos a este sitio Walter!  Yo entiendo mas de la lengua de Espana de
lo que puedo escribir.  Gracias por la URL.  En que ciudad vive usted?

	Sonia Dyer

> Date:   Tue, 03 Oct 2000 08:59:41 -0300
> Subject: disney comics
> From: "Walter Carzon" <walterc at satlink.com>
> To: dcomics at stp.ling.uu.se
> boundary="MS_Mac_OE_3053408381_171742_MIME_Part"
> 
> Hello, sorry but my english is very poor. 
> So, I'm speak spanish. 
> 
> Mi nombre es Walter Carzon, soy dibujante de comics de Warner 
> Bros y Disney.
> Mi pais es Argentina, y llegue por casualidad a este sitio 
> donde vi que
> tienen una lista de los dibujantes de Disney donde incluyen 
> mi nombre, por
> ese motivo quisiera agradecerles y ofrecerles, si lo desean, 
> que les envie
> informacion de mi trabajo e inclusive algunos archivos con 
> ilustraciones.
> Para Disney estuve dibujando los comics de The Little 
> Mermaid, Duck Tales,
> TaleSpin, Disney Afternoon, y en activity books, dibuje a los 
> personajes de
> las peliculas, The Beauty and The Beast, Tarzan, Toy Story 2, 
> entre otros.
> Cualquier cosa que necesiten no duden en escribirme, y 
> nuevamente les pido
> disculpas que no pude escribirles la carta en ingles.
> 
> Un gran abrazo y gracias.
> 
> Walter Carzon
> Artist
> 
> my site: www.duendesdelsur.com
> --MS_Mac_OE_3053408381_171742_MIME_Part
> Content-type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
> Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable
> 
> <HTML>
> <HEAD>
> <TITLE>disney comics</TITLE>
> </HEAD>
> <BODY BGCOLOR=3D"#FFFFFF">
> Hello, sorry but my english is very poor. <BR>
> So, I'm speak spanish. <BR>
> <BR>
> Mi nombre es Walter Carzon, soy dibujante de comics de Warner 
> Bros y Disney=
> . Mi pais es Argentina, y llegue por casualidad a este sitio 
> donde vi que ti=
> enen una lista de los dibujantes de Disney donde incluyen mi 
> nombre, por ese=
>  motivo quisiera agradecerles y ofrecerles, si lo desean, que 
> les envie info=
> rmacion de mi trabajo e inclusive algunos archivos con 
> ilustraciones.<BR>
> Para Disney estuve dibujando los comics de The Little 
> Mermaid, Duck Tales, =
> TaleSpin, Disney Afternoon, y en activity books, dibuje a los 
> personajes de =
> las peliculas, The Beauty and The Beast, Tarzan, Toy Story 2, 
> entre otros.<B=
> R>
> Cualquier cosa que necesiten no duden en escribirme, y 
> nuevamente les pido =
> disculpas que no pude escribirles la carta en ingles.<BR>
> <BR>
> Un gran abrazo y gracias.<BR>
> <B><BR>
> Walter Carzon<BR>
> </B>Artist <BR>
> <BR>
> my site: <B>www.duendesdelsur.com</B>
> </BODY>
> </HTML>
> 
> --MS_Mac_OE_3053408381_171742_MIME_Part--
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --__--__--
> 
> _______________________________________________
> dcml at stp.ling.uu.se - Disney Comics Mailing List
> http://stp.ling.uu.se/mailman/listinfo/dcml
> 
> 
> End of DCML Digest
> 



From pflip at tiscalinet.it  Thu Oct  5 16:20:16 2000
From: pflip at tiscalinet.it (Eta Beta)
Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2000 16:20:16 +0200
Subject: Barks' "Riddle of the Red Hat"
Message-ID: <39dc8d8f39e24639@laguna.tiscalinet.it> (added by
	    laguna.tiscalinet.it)

Hello!

I'm (nearly) certain I've read somewhere, in a Barks interview,
references to the one and only Mickey story he did, "The Riddle
of the Red Hat" from "Four Color" #79, and to the circumstances
in which he got that job...

Could anybody help me find out ?


Cheers

Eta Beta




From chuckm_1962 at yahoo.com  Thu Oct  5 19:21:35 2000
From: chuckm_1962 at yahoo.com (Chuck Munson)
Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2000 10:21:35 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Journal de Mickey Barks Tribute
Message-ID: <20001005172135.19050.qmail@web216.mail.yahoo.com>

Hi everyone,

Any chance that one of the French list members could
provide me with a copy of the special Barks tribute
issue of Le Journal de Mickey?  I can trade for an old
Gladstone (if I can find my extras, I'm packing for an
eventual move) or can send cold hard cash in one form
or another.

While I'm on the subject, another item I'm looking for
is the Finnish version of Don's Kalevala tale (or is
it sold out yet again?).  I have some extras of
1970-71 Aku Ankka issues which I'd be happy to trade
for it or once again we can arrange for Roope-Seta
preferred cold hard cash.

Please e-mail me at cmunson at kcct.com as my Yahoo
account has been really unreliable lately.

Thanks,
Chuck Munson

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Photos - 35mm Quality Prints, Now Get 15 Free!
http://photos.yahoo.com/



From Wouter at agroweb.nl  Thu Oct  5 19:41:44 2000
From: Wouter at agroweb.nl (Wouter)
Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2000 19:41:44 +0200
Subject: John Stephen Akhwari
References: <Pine.GSO.4.21.0010041308200.20200-100000@dias>
Message-ID: <001b01c02ef3$88c95380$27ce3591@olitest>

Kriton wrote:
>
> In one sense, this is what the Olympics are supposed to be about: pushing
> yourself to the limit and beyond, unlike what happens in many athletics
> competitions these days, where runners are payed to play the part of
> "rabbits", running at a pace that they cannot maintain, then abandoning
> the race without completing it, in some misguided notion that this will
> push the other athletes to run faster and break the record.

It would make a real nice story if one of those "rabbits" would win the
race.




From sgarcia at uf-isf.es  Fri Oct  6 09:37:58 2000
From: sgarcia at uf-isf.es (Santiago Garcia Banhos)
Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2000 09:37:58 +0200
Subject: Picsou web URL
In-Reply-To: <200010051000.MAA09848@numerus.ling.uu.se>
Message-ID: <001101c02f68$591f9480$34446f0a@ufisf.es>

SONIA:

>Did anyone have an answer to a recent question someone asked about whether
>there's a URL for subscribing to Picsou?  I haven't been able to find one,
>even with a search engine.
>
>	Thanks,
>	      Sonia

I've recently subscribed to Picsou Magazine (some months ago), and I had to
through ordinary mail. You can even by phone or fax, in case you can speak
French, or in case they understand English - I don't know if they do.

The post address is:

	Picsou Magazine
	Service Abonnements
	BP 2
	59718 Lille Cedex 9
	France

Fax: 01.55.63.40.62

I must say they answered me very kindly, and nowadays I'm receiving (in
Spain) my issue right every month.

I don't know if they have any website for subscribing, or for anything else:
in each issue there is a panel with company info about the publisher, etc,
but no website nor email address. :-(

The only page where I've seen even mentioned 'Picsou Mag' is

http://www.lagardere.fr/fr/connaitre_le_groupe/activites/com_filipacchi.html

That not really much, isn't it?

Santiago.





From willot.francois at ec-lille.fr  Fri Oct  6 12:27:41 2000
From: willot.francois at ec-lille.fr (=?ISO-8859-1?Q? Fran=E7ois?= Willot)
Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2000 12:27:41 +0200
Subject: Papa duck is dead
Message-ID: <005801c02f80$0f5c4b00$7c031eac@vinci.eclille.fr>

Picsou #345 is a special Barks issue.
Cover (Scrooge in tears) redrawn from Barks
Pin-up by Don Rosa on Big Top Bedlam
Edito on Carl Barks, "The Good Artist"
 Big Top Bedlam by Carl Barks
 The original cover of Big Top Bedlam (by Buettner?)
 Barks ten pager on Duckburg (Olympic) games
Gallery of phtographs on Barks, sketches, oil paintings
Late Barks 10-pager (WDC 245)
 Magica de Spell 10 pager by Carl Barks (WDC 265)
Barks 10-pager (WDC 176)
Gyro short story by Barks from DD 26
 Editorial on Barks' influences about Big Top Bedlam and the Gyro Halloween
story





From favio31 at caramail.com  Fri Oct  6 12:30:35 2000
From: favio31 at caramail.com (Thierry Fernand)
Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2000 12:30:35 +0200
Subject: Picsou #345
Message-ID: <970831679027382@caramail.com>

More information on the latest Picsou is available here:
http://members.forez.com/coa//scans/pm354d.html

**********************************
Liviaonline - Free Disney Comics on The World Wide Web:
  http://www.liviaonline.com/
______________________________________________________
Bo?te aux lettres - Caramail - http://www.caramail.com


From arttu_salminen at hotmail.com  Fri Oct  6 23:35:01 2000
From: arttu_salminen at hotmail.com (Arttu Salminen)
Date: Fri, 06 Oct 2000 23:35:01 EEST
Subject: Mistake in 'Don Rosa's non-Disney comics'
Message-ID: <F88Lf4bg5XmllgYBr4B00001051@hotmail.com>

At DCML digest, Vol 1 #279 I asked, that does enyone know where can I get
Don Rosa's non-Disney comics (Pertwillaby Papers and Captain Kentucky),
which are going to be published in two books (which will be sold in one
case) by some Danish publisher.
But the publisher isn't Danish, it's German! Sorry about the mistake.
Still waiting for answers...
_________________________________________________________________________
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http://profiles.msn.com.




From p.castagno at libero.it  Fri Oct  6 22:37:12 2000
From: p.castagno at libero.it (Paolo Castagno)
Date: Fri, 06 Oct 2000 22:37:12 +0200
Subject: Good!! Veeeery good!!!
Message-ID: <39DE37F8.9D1E66BA@libero.it>

Hello!

Once in a time I'm very happy after reading the weekly
Topolino!!!

In this issues there are some interesting things that I'd like to
share with you: 

The first story is from Cavazzano (written by Mezzavilla) and is
a weird one, not "silly" as usual, that I liked very much.
Deserves a 7 in a 1-10 range

Then a Young DD story (Paperino Paperotto) nothing memorable, but
it made me laugh! 6+

What's interesting is a new serial of stories inspired to
Hemingway short stories. There are also some pages of editorials
abot Hemingway, Cavazzano (the co-ordinator of the project), Tha
"Accademia Disney" (the place where new Disney artist grow up),
and the new artists who will drawn those stories (8 in total). A
mark of 8 summing up story and articles!

A short Gilbert story... well... 3- (you can't have everything!)

The most interesting story of the issue, IMHO, is "Paperinik e
l'anatema punitivo" (Super Duck and the punitive curse) where
Donald wears again Paperinik costume, but not as a super hero,
but as an avenger of himself: like in many stories from the early
70ties, Gladstone and Scrooge team up against Donald to bother
him while he is with Daisy. Well, DD wears his costume to have
his vengance. Also, this story is well drawn by Fabio Celoni, one
of the artist I more used to blame... but recently his style
become very interesting, and nowadays I like his art a lot. 8 1/2

The lasst story is with the Ducks in 1927, few months before the
great Wall Strees crisis... pretty interesting topic, since the
Nasdaq falling... I'd say a 6 1/2

To conclude: a very, very, very good issue. Thanks to everyone
involved who could be reading this.

  - Paolo

  - Paolo

-- 
http://members.xoom.it/inducks  mailto:p.castagno at libero.it

"Dimmi, nipote, questa e' la terza o la quarta scodella di latte?
Non vedo il tavolo per via delle lacrime!"
(Zio Paperone in W OS  367-02)





From arttu_salminen at hotmail.com  Sat Oct  7 09:30:42 2000
From: arttu_salminen at hotmail.com (Arttu Salminen)
Date: Sat, 07 Oct 2000 09:30:42 EEST
Subject: Double mistake in 'Don Rosa's non-Disney comics'  
Message-ID: <F74b1s7nlT2NqFJ3sl300001213@hotmail.com>

Mistake then, mistake now!
The publisher who is going to publish Don Rosa's non-Disney comics isn't
German! It's not Danish, it's not German, it's Norwegian!!!
Sorry about the mistake, AGAIN! Although this time I did remember the
country right. It was a typeing mistake, a BAD typeing mistake (all the
letters were wrong)!
_________________________________________________________________________
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From komix43 at hotmail.com  Sat Oct  7 19:24:02 2000
From: komix43 at hotmail.com (Apostolis Trikourakis)
Date: Sat, 7 Oct 2000 20:24:02 +0300
Subject: Three Caballeros Names and other...
Message-ID: <OE14kxOjmfCHJr1Wtyi00000be9@hotmail.com>

Dear Duckfans

Is anybody who knows the names of the two Camballeros? The one I think is
Hose Carioka but the other one?
Thank's anyway!
P.S. Also I create a Don Rosa's Library in my page. Take a look at
http://www.crosswinds.net/~komixgreekpage
Finally, if any DCML member (like Arthur Faria Jr) wants to upload stories
but he have not space to his account or he want to delete the stories in
order to put new, I can help him! I have unlimited space so I can upload any
story. I'll be glad to help someone!

Apostolis Trikourakis, Athens
E-mail: komix43 at hotmail.com
Web Site: http://www.geocities.com/komixgreekpage
DCML member




From komix43 at hotmail.com  Sat Oct  7 19:30:00 2000
From: komix43 at hotmail.com (Apostolis Trikourakis)
Date: Sat, 7 Oct 2000 20:30:00 +0300
Subject: Wrong Address!
Message-ID: <OE26OYdOiQ4rYnevYJv000010de@hotmail.com>

Oops!
The right address is
http://www.crosswinds.net/~komixgreekpage/englishindex.htm
Sorry about that!
Best Wishes

Apostolis Trikourakis, Athens
E-mail: komix43 at hotmail.com
Web Site: http://www.geocities.com/komixgreekpage
DCML member




From fernandopventura at uol.com.br  Sat Oct  7 23:53:51 2000
From: fernandopventura at uol.com.br (Fernando Ventura)
Date: Sat, 7 Oct 2000 18:53:51 -0300
Subject: Caballeros's names!
Message-ID: <001d01c030a9$19b6f1c0$23dbbfc8@v2h5i1>

Is anybody who knows the names of the two Camballeros? The one I think is
Hose Carioka but the other one?
Thank's anyway!
Apostolis Trikourakis

The names are:

Z? Carioca(also Joe, or Jos?), the parrot.
Panchito, the other one.

Fernando!




From marcobar at ds.unifi.it  Sun Oct  8 00:11:43 2000
From: marcobar at ds.unifi.it (Marco Barlotti)
Date: Sun, 08 Oct 2000 00:11:43 +0200
Subject: The renaissance of "Topolino"?
In-Reply-To: <200010071000.MAA22477@numerus.ling.uu.se>
Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20001008001143.00893290@ds.unifi.it>

On  Fri, 06 Oct 2000 22:37:12 +0200, Paolo Castagno <p.castagno at libero.it>
wrote:

>
>Once in a time I'm very happy after reading the weekly
>Topolino!!!
>

That was issue #2341, if I understand well.
And in the following issue, #2342, you will find a sequel of Bottaro's I TL
188-A "Il dottor Paperus". Very interesting, with lots of quotes from other
stories like I TL 312-B and the Hazel-Goofy saga.

And we are looking forward to Faraci's last story, next December...

    Marco





From komix43 at hotmail.com  Sun Oct  8 00:38:55 2000
From: komix43 at hotmail.com (Apostolis Trikourakis)
Date: Sun, 8 Oct 2000 01:38:55 +0300
Subject: Caballeros' names!
Message-ID: <OE3Z4MWZw0UX2REZTBq00000c8c@hotmail.com>

>>>Z? Carioca(also Joe, or Jos?), the parrot.
>>>Panchito, the other one.
>
>>>Fernando!

Thanks a lot Fernado! I'm also looking for Goofy's adventurous cousin. His
greek name is Indiana Goofy (Intiana Goufy). Can you help me? Thanks a lot
again!

Apostolis Trikourakis, Athens
E-mail: komix43 at hotmail.com
Web Site: http://www.geocities.com/komixgreekpage
DCML member




From komix43 at hotmail.com  Sun Oct  8 02:00:07 2000
From: komix43 at hotmail.com (Apostolis Trikourakis)
Date: Sun, 8 Oct 2000 03:00:07 +0300
Subject: New Chat Room!
Message-ID: <OE53KLpgTFur2iz2Mb100001cfc@hotmail.com>

Dear Duckfans

I just create a new chat room, better that the previous one. Take a look at
http://www.geocities.com/komixgreekpage/chatroompage.htm !! Offcourse, its
in English.
Best Wishes

Apostolis Trikourakis, Athens
E-mail: komix43 at hotmail.com
Web Site: http://www.geocities.com/komixgreekpage
DCML member




From alexiov at libero.it  Sun Oct  8 10:42:12 2000
From: alexiov at libero.it (Alessandro Iovino)
Date: Sun, 8 Oct 2000 10:42:12 +0200
Subject: about the last issue of I TL
In-Reply-To: <39DE37F8.9D1E66BA@libero.it>
Message-ID: <39E04F84.22082.139A69@localhost>

On 6 Oct 2000, at 22:37, Paolo Castagno wrote:

> Hello!
> 
> Once in a time I'm very happy after reading the weekly
> Topolino!!!
> 
> In this issues there are some interesting things that I'd like to
> share with you: 
> 
> The first story is from Cavazzano (written by Mezzavilla) and is
> a weird one, not "silly" as usual, that I liked very much.
> Deserves a 7 in a 1-10 range
> 


Hi,

Yes, a quite strange history, but it seems to be a "truncated" one.
The first time I read it, I did'nt like it at all
I would like very much to know more about your opinion of the story.
Why did you like it?

I think it's only a collection of unbound illustrations, there is'nt a 
plot, the story suddenly stops and nobody, me at least ;-), may 
understand what's really happened

It would be of any significance if you might consider it as a  change 
of direction in editorial guide-line, often forcing stories to strictly 
obey academic stereotypes, both on artistic and script point of view
 I'm afraid it's but a single experiment


Alessandro Iovino







From komix43 at hotmail.com  Sun Oct  8 11:49:17 2000
From: komix43 at hotmail.com (Apostolis Trikourakis)
Date: Sun, 8 Oct 2000 12:49:17 +0300
Subject: My disney meeting!
Message-ID: <OE26yuqxx4Gx73kfCxu000013fe@hotmail.com>

Hi again Duckfans
A fans' meeting will take place to my chat room today, Sunday 8, at 10:00 in
the evening (GTM hour). So I'm calling all of you to my chat! The address is
http://www.geocities.com/komixgreekpage/chatroompage.htm The topics will be
Don Rosa new stories, the death of Carl Barks, Komix' almost 150 issues and
much more! My nickname will be "Komix". I'll be waiting for all you! Please
try to come!
Best Wishes

Apostolis Trikourakis, Athens
E-mail: komix43 at hotmail.com
Web Site: http://www.geocities.com/komixgreekpage
DCML member




From reimersholme at hotmail.com  Sun Oct  8 12:01:14 2000
From: reimersholme at hotmail.com (Stefan Persson)
Date: Sun, 8 Oct 2000 12:01:14 +0200
Subject: Indiana Pipps
References: <20001008095037.39e0436d36dcd@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <OE43OZofu45XijWQK3z00000c6e@hotmail.com>

----- Original Message -----
From: "Apostolis Trikourakis" <komix43 at hotmail.com>
To: "Stefan Persson" <reimersholme at hotmail.com>
Sent: Sunday, October 08, 2000 11:49 AM
Subject: Indiana Pipps


> >>>The original Italian name is Indiana Pipps.
> Thanks again! What "pipps" means? Also, do you know the american / english
> name of Indiana Pipps?

Pippo de Pipps = Goofy
I don't think there is any English name.



From willot.francois at ec-lille.fr  Sun Oct  8 12:11:06 2000
From: willot.francois at ec-lille.fr (=?ISO-8859-1?Q? Fran=E7ois?= Willot)
Date: Sun, 8 Oct 2000 12:11:06 +0200
Subject: Indiana Pipps
References: <20001008095037.39e0436d36dcd@hotmail.com> <OE43OZofu45XijWQK3z00000c6e@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <001b01c03110$16046b40$7c031eac@vinci.eclille.fr>

> > >>>The original Italian name is Indiana Pipps.
> > Thanks again! What "pipps" means? Also, do you know the american /
> > english name of Indiana Pipps?
>
> Pippo de Pipps = Goofy
> I don't think there is any English name.

Isn't it "Arizona Goof"? (I've seen it mentioned several times, but where
does this name come from BTW?)




From komix43 at hotmail.com  Sun Oct  8 14:09:15 2000
From: komix43 at hotmail.com (Apostolis Trikourakis)
Date: Sun, 8 Oct 2000 15:09:15 +0300
Subject: Indiana Pipps
Message-ID: <OE2VXR08ies8JynCR340000078a@hotmail.com>

Stefan wrote:

>>>I don't think there is any English name.
&
Willot wrote:
>>>Isn't it "Arizona Goof"? (I've seen it mentioned several times, but where
>>>does this name come from BTW?)

I think "Arizona Goof" is the english name. The greek name is a mix of
Indiana Jones and Goofy: Indiana Goofy!
Best Wishes

Apostolis Trikourakis, Athens
E-mail: komix43 at hotmail.com
Web Site: http://www.geocities.com/komixgreekpage
DCML member




From reimersholme at hotmail.com  Sun Oct  8 14:32:00 2000
From: reimersholme at hotmail.com (Stefan Persson)
Date: Sun, 8 Oct 2000 14:32:00 +0200
Subject: Caballeros's names!
References: <001d01c030a9$19b6f1c0$23dbbfc8@v2h5i1> <OE211cXVuuhCfPX2QQz00000d0e@hotmail.com> <001b01c03117$00311780$2416bfc8@v2h5i1>
Message-ID: <OE5az7EjQxzmWecm9t000000c75@hotmail.com>

----- Original Message -----
From: "Fernando Ventura" <fernandopventura at uol.com.br>
To: "Stefan Persson" <reimersholme at hotmail.com>
Sent: Sunday, October 08, 2000 1:00 PM
Subject: Re: Caballeros's names!

>Hum, yes, I think it is used only in Brazil...in fact "Z?" is a short way
of
>Jos?...and I think that Jos? in english is "Joe", that is used on Disney's
>films...Here in Brazil, we never call him "Joe"!
>Ah, and Don Rosa sad that Panchitp's intire name is "Panchito Pistoles"!

In D 2000-002 (Swedish title "Tre caballeros kommer tillbaka") he is called
Jos?... Or at least in Sweden... And the full name was used in the resum? of
part one, printed on the first page of part two of that story.



From pflip at tiscalinet.it  Sat Oct  7 14:48:31 2000
From: pflip at tiscalinet.it (Eta Beta)
Date: Sat, 7 Oct 2000 14:48:31 +0200
Subject: Papa duck is dead
Message-ID: <39df1b0c3a0c6f1f@laguna.tiscalinet.it> (added by
	    laguna.tiscalinet.it)

Another French comics magazine, "Bo-Doi", dedicates 3 pages
of the latest issue (#34) to "Le papa de Picsou", under the
title "Carl Barks auteur Capital".


Cheers

Eta Beta




From Jan.Follak at uni-konstanz.de  Sun Oct  8 19:06:05 2000
From: Jan.Follak at uni-konstanz.de (Jan Follak)
Date: Sun, 08 Oct 2000 19:06:05 +0200
Subject: The renaissance of "Topolino"?
In-Reply-To: <200010081000.MAA07081@numerus.ling.uu.se>
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20001008190605.007dacd0@popserver.uni-konstanz.de>

Marco Barlotti:

>And we are looking forward to Faraci's last story, next December...

If I come across a German Disney Comic with a story of him in it, I buy it,
because I'm sure it'll be very good. Why does Faraci stop writing for
Topolino?! 




From Corycrivari at aol.com  Sun Oct  8 21:27:32 2000
From: Corycrivari at aol.com (Corycrivari@aol.com)
Date: Sun, 8 Oct 2000 15:27:32 EDT
Subject: Disney Comic Strip Artist's Kit
Message-ID: <20.c66f41e.271224a4@aol.com>

Carson Van Osten wrote Comic Strip Artist's Kit for Disney. Does anybody know 
where I can get a copy of this?

You can contact me at the following e-mail address:
    Corycrivari at aol.com

Thank you,
Cory Crivari



From fernandopventura at uol.com.br  Sun Oct  8 21:33:22 2000
From: fernandopventura at uol.com.br (Fernando Ventura)
Date: Sun, 8 Oct 2000 16:33:22 -0300
Subject: Disney's Comic Kit?!
Message-ID: <003d01c0315e$a11700a0$d5d9bfc8@v2h5i1>

Cory Criavi writted:

Carson Van Osten wrote Comic Strip Artist's Kit for Disney. Does anybody know 
where I can get a copy of this?

You can contact me at the following e-mail address:
    Corycrivari at aol.com

Thank you,
Cory Crivari


Uow! It's appear great! some questions:

Who is Carson Van Osten?
Were this Kit is, or will be published?

Many thanks!
Fernando Ventura!
-------------- next part --------------
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From efx_al at tin.it  Sun Oct  8 21:40:54 2000
From: efx_al at tin.it (Fabio "Efx" Rossi)
Date: Sun, 8 Oct 2000 21:40:54 +0200
Subject: R: Good!! Veeeery good!!!
Message-ID: <001101c0315f$acb3e9e0$678e2dd5@dblgro>

>Hello!
>
>Once in a time I'm very happy after reading the weekly
>Topolino!!!
>
>In this issues there are some interesting things that I'd like to
>share with you:
>
>The first story is from Cavazzano (written by Mezzavilla) and is
>a weird one, not "silly" as usual, that I liked very much.
>Deserves a 7 in a 1-10 range
>


Yes!
but 8 is better, if we consider the drawing of Cavazzano.
I think  Giorgio Cavazzano, Massimo De Vita, Romano Scarpa and Don Rosa are
the best
Disney drawer (alive) in all world.



>Then a Young DD story (Paperino Paperotto) nothing memorable, but
>it made me laugh! 6+


ehehhehe!
too much amusement, "Paperino Paperotto" is a deformed Donald Duck and very
original.


>
>What's interesting is a new serial of stories inspired to
>Hemingway short stories. There are also some pages of editorials
>abot Hemingway, Cavazzano (the co-ordinator of the project), Tha
>"Accademia Disney" (the place where new Disney artist grow up),
>and the new artists who will drawn those stories (8 in total). A
>mark of 8 summing up story and articles!
>


This is a beatiful thing, but the ability of drawer is very different.


>A short Gilbert story... well... 3- (you can't have everything!)
>

yap!



>The most interesting story of the issue, IMHO, is "Paperinik e
>l'anatema punitivo" (Super Duck and the punitive curse) where
>Donald wears again Paperinik costume, but not as a super hero,
>but as an avenger of himself: like in many stories from the early
>70ties, Gladstone and Scrooge team up against Donald to bother
>him while he is with Daisy. Well, DD wears his costume to have
>his vengance. Also, this story is well drawn by Fabio Celoni, one
>of the artist I more used to blame... but recently his style
>become very interesting, and nowadays I like his art a lot. 8 1/2
>


Uhm?
excessive!
the style of Fabio Celoni is improved, but...



>The lasst story is with the Ducks in 1927, few months before the
>great Wall Strees crisis... pretty interesting topic, since the
>Nasdaq falling... I'd say a 6 1/2
>
>To conclude: a very, very, very good issue. Thanks to everyone
>involved who could be reading this.
>

sure!
but read the story of Massimo De Vita (sacred monster) in Topolino n?2334


p.s. e se disquisissimo anche in italiano?


>
>"Dimmi, nipote, questa e' la terza o la quarta scodella di latte?
>Non vedo il tavolo per via delle lacrime!"
>(Zio Paperone in W OS  367-02)
>
>
>

ehehe non ricordavo! ma io ti potrei dire:
"Gambadilegno: non posso sopportare la vista del sangue!
Topolino: non ? nulla! qua un buon cerotto!
Gambadilegno: grazie... ma la vista  del mio sangue, naturalmente!"

[ Topolino e la dimensione delta ]







From efx_al at tin.it  Sun Oct  8 21:43:08 2000
From: efx_al at tin.it (Fabio "Efx" Rossi)
Date: Sun, 8 Oct 2000 21:43:08 +0200
Subject: R: Caballeros' names!
Message-ID: <001601c0315f$fc6b04a0$678e2dd5@dblgro>

-----Messaggio originale-----
Da: Apostolis Trikourakis <komix43 at hotmail.com>
A: DCML <dcml at stp.ling.uu.se>
Data: domenica 8 ottobre 2000 0.38
Oggetto: Caballeros' names!


>>>>Z? Carioca(also Joe, or Jos?), the parrot.
>>>>Panchito, the other one.
>>
>>>>Fernando!
>
>Thanks a lot Fernado! I'm also looking for Goofy's adventurous cousin. His
>greek name is Indiana Goofy (Intiana Goufy). Can you help me? Thanks a lot
>again!
>
>Apostolis Trikourakis, Athens
>E-mail: komix43 at hotmail.com
>Web Site: http://www.geocities.com/komixgreekpage
>DCML member
>
>

created in Italy, and is alter-ego of Indiana Jones.
recent history is appeared in "Topolino" (in english language Mickey Mouse
Weekly) to celebrate Sidney 2000.
The italian name is: "Indiana Pipps" and was created by Bruno Sarda.
First story is "Topolino e Pippo in i predatori del tempio perduto"
(Topolino n?1724 11 december 1988).
Is necessary you learn the italian language!!


bye






From efx_al at tin.it  Sun Oct  8 21:45:03 2000
From: efx_al at tin.it (Fabio "Efx" Rossi)
Date: Sun, 8 Oct 2000 21:45:03 +0200
Subject: R: The renaissance of "Topolino"?
Message-ID: <001f01c03160$412a8160$678e2dd5@dblgro>

-----Messaggio originale-----
Da: Marco Barlotti <marcobar at ds.unifi.it>
A: dcml at stp.ling.uu.se <dcml at stp.ling.uu.se>
Data: domenica 8 ottobre 2000 0.11
Oggetto: The renaissance of "Topolino"?


>
>On  Fri, 06 Oct 2000 22:37:12 +0200, Paolo Castagno <p.castagno at libero.it>
>wrote:
>
>>
>>Once in a time I'm very happy after reading the weekly
>>Topolino!!!
>>
>
>That was issue #2341, if I understand well.
>And in the following issue, #2342, you will find a sequel of Bottaro's I TL
>188-A "Il dottor Paperus". Very interesting, with lots of quotes from other
>stories like I TL 312-B and the Hazel-Goofy saga.
>
>And we are looking forward to Faraci's last story, next December...
>
>    Marco
>


WOW !
BOTTARO!
this is a miracle?

p.s. ve le ricordate le sue "mattaglie"?









From fernandopventura at uol.com.br  Sun Oct  8 21:42:56 2000
From: fernandopventura at uol.com.br (Fernando Ventura)
Date: Sun, 8 Oct 2000 16:42:56 -0300
Subject: Indiana Pipps
Message-ID: <005f01c0315f$fe6722c0$d5d9bfc8@v2h5i1>


From komix43 at hotmail.com  Mon Oct  9 02:23:55 2000
From: komix43 at hotmail.com (Apostolis Trikourakis)
Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2000 03:23:55 +0300
Subject: Some Cavazzano's stories
Message-ID: <OE52qCIGKSv7A4WAkif00001104@hotmail.com>

Dear Duckfans

I'm looking for the american/english tittles of some Giorgio Cavazzano's
stories:

--A story with U.S. and the Beagles Boys: Scrooge is making an underground
bin and Beagle Boys are putting explosives in the bottom.
--The first Cavazzano's story with Donald and Fethry.
--A story with Mickey Mouse and Black Pit. Black Pit is stealing trains in a
tunnel by numbing the guards and Mickey wants to solve the mystery.
Thanks anyway!

Apostolis Trikourakis, Athens
E-mail: komix43 at hotmail.com
Web Site: http://www.geocities.com/komixgreekpage
DCML member




From Armando.Botto at elsag.it  Mon Oct  9 09:16:01 2000
From: Armando.Botto at elsag.it (Botto Armando)
Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2000 09:16:01 +0200 
Subject: about the last issue of I TL
Message-ID: <747D2ED67A22D41181240090273F51E26B6FB6@gspsvr.gsp.elsag.it>

Paolo wrote:
> The first story is from Cavazzano (written by Mezzavilla) and is a weird
one, not "silly" as usual, that I liked very much. Deserves a 7 in a 1-10
range
Alessandro answered:
> Yes, a quite strange history, but it seems to be a "truncated" one. The
first time I read it, I did'nt like it at all
I would like very much to know more about your opinion of the story. Why did
you like it?
I think it's only a collection of unbound illustrations, there is'nt a plot,
the story suddenly stops and nobody, me at least ;-), may  understand what's
really happened

Well, sometimes a story doesn't need a completely defined plot to be
beautiful... it can leave a little space for the reader's fantasy to roam...
Anyway, here's the "real" plot of the Mezzavilla story, as I understood it:
(SPOILER ahead - maybe ;-))
When he was a little child, Mickey lost his teddy bear in a park.
Now, to the present. Mickey is taking a nap on a bench in the same park. Not
far from him, a little child starts crying because he's lost his teddy bear.
As it often happens, this external input is turned into a dream by Mickey's
brain.
So, Mickey dreams a (dreamily ;-)) strange mystery story, about a villa
where people lose the things they care most for. In the end, he finds the
place where all lost things are stored, and his teddy bear is there, too.
Mickey hugs it, happy as a child...
And he's woken up by the baby-sitter of the little child in the park, who
asks him to help her find the kid's teddy bear.
(end of SPOILER)

A very nice and poetic story, IMHO. And drawn by Cavazzano, too... I really
hope for more of the same kind!

Ciao,
Armando



From pat3 at psu.edu  Mon Oct  9 01:14:21 2000
From: pat3 at psu.edu (Patrick Trimble)
Date: Sun, 08 Oct 2000 19:14:21 -0400
Subject: Jack Hannah
Message-ID: <1.5.4.16.20001008231421.45077872@email.psu.edu>

Browsing on line, I found a citation for a book (or maybe it's a magazine
article) i cannot find -- "Jack Hannah:  Donald Duck's Other Daddy" by Jim
Korkis.  

Can anyone tell me where it can be found?

PT





From MichaelNagula at compuserve.com  Mon Oct  9 13:20:19 2000
From: MichaelNagula at compuserve.com (Michael Nagula)
Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2000 07:20:19 -0400
Subject: DCML digest, Vol 1 #283 - 15 msgs
Message-ID: <200010090720_MC2-B633-1560@compuserve.com>

Please no more DCML digest!!!

I quit!!!

Michael Nagula



From harms313 at web.de  Mon Oct  9 13:32:06 2000
From: harms313 at web.de (Klaus Harms)
Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2000 13:32:06 +0200
Subject: Slightly off-topic, but interesting
References: <200010091000.MAA20455@numerus.ling.uu.se>
Message-ID: <39E1ACB6.BFF68FA6@web.de>

Hi Folks,

I should point out that "Der Fuehrer's Page" is up again: A site that
shows screenshots and the poster of the famous (but very rarely seen)
Academy Award-winning cartoon. Available at:

http://www.geocities.com/derfueherspage/dff.htm

Ach, ve ist not der Master Race anymore.
(And I strongly believe we've never been.)

That's all Folks

Klaus



From komix43 at hotmail.com  Mon Oct  9 14:55:47 2000
From: komix43 at hotmail.com (Apostolis Trikourakis)
Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2000 15:55:47 +0300
Subject: Slightly off-topic, but interesting
Message-ID: <OE54Fm5Oeg3Bvy3rOYa00001645@hotmail.com>

Klaus Harms wrote:

>>>I should point out that "Der Fuehrer's Page" is up again: A site that
>>>shows screenshots and the poster of the famous (but very rarely seen)
>>>Academy Award-winning cartoon. Available at:
>
>>>http://www.geocities.com/derfueherspage/dff.htm

I checked the address but Geocities is displaying a "File not Found" page.
Please Klaus, check if the address is correct.
Best Wishes 


Apostolis Trikourakis, Athens
E-mail: komix43 at hotmail.com
Web Site: http://www.geocities.com/komixgreekpage
DCML member




From frspreaf at tin.it  Mon Oct  9 14:26:31 2000
From: frspreaf at tin.it (Francesco Spreafico)
Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2000 14:26:31 +0200
Subject: The renaissance of "Topolino"?
References: <001f01c03160$412a8160$678e2dd5@dblgro>
Message-ID: <03a601c031f0$e80aae20$1f000f97@maul>

From: "Fabio "Efx" Rossi" <efx_al at tin.it>

> WOW !
> BOTTARO!
> this is a miracle?

I've just read it and it is a *very* good story indeed! IMHO the best among
his "later" ones.

--
Sprea




From frspreaf at tin.it  Mon Oct  9 14:29:53 2000
From: frspreaf at tin.it (Francesco Spreafico)
Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2000 14:29:53 +0200
Subject: about the last issue of I TL
References: <39E04F84.22082.139A69@localhost>
Message-ID: <03a701c031f0$e8e35ae0$1f000f97@maul>

From: "Alessandro Iovino" <alexiov at libero.it>

> Yes, a quite strange history, but it seems to be a "truncated" one.
> The first time I read it, I did'nt like it at all
> I would like very much to know more about your opinion of the story.
> Why did you like it?

Just for that reason :-) The story suddenly stops with that "Peter Pan"
feeling (the little bear from the childhood reminded me a lot of the movie
"Hook") and there's no explaination for what's actually happeining.

I guess that Mezzavilla is, with Faraci, one of the best writers nowadays.

--
Sprea




From H.W.Fluks at kpn.com  Mon Oct  9 16:09:21 2000
From: H.W.Fluks at kpn.com (Fluks, H.W.)
Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2000 15:09:21 +0100
Subject: Slightly off-topic, but interesting
Message-ID: <59063B5B4D98D311BC0D0001FA7E452202075EB5@l04.research.kpn.com>

> From: Klaus Harms [mailto:harms313 at web.de]
> Sent: Monday, October 09, 2000 12:32 PM

> I should point out that "Der Fuehrer's Page" is up again: A site that
> shows screenshots and the poster of the famous (but very rarely seen)
> Academy Award-winning cartoon. Available at:
> http://www.geocities.com/derfueherspage/dff.htm

Correct address:

http://www.geocities.com/derfuehrerspage/
(note the extra 'r')

--Harry.
("Leesten very carefully - I shall say thees only waance.")



From H.W.Fluks at kpn.com  Mon Oct  9 16:13:16 2000
From: H.W.Fluks at kpn.com (Fluks, H.W.)
Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2000 15:13:16 +0100
Subject: Indiana Pipps
Message-ID: <59063B5B4D98D311BC0D0001FA7E452202075EB6@l04.research.kpn.com>

> From: Fran?ois Willot [mailto:willot.francois at ec-lille.fr]
> Sent: Sunday, October 08, 2000 11:11 AM

> > Pippo de Pipps = Goofy
> > I don't think there is any English name.
> Isn't it "Arizona Goof"? (I've seen it mentioned several 
> times, but where does this name come from BTW?)

Disney Comics introduced the name "Arizona Goof" when they reprinted an
Indiana Pipps story (in Goofy Adventures #12). They didn't want to use
"Indiana Goof" because of possible licence problems with the "Indiana Jones"
people.

--Harry.



From komix43 at hotmail.com  Mon Oct  9 15:53:28 2000
From: komix43 at hotmail.com (Apostolis Trikourakis)
Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2000 16:53:28 +0300
Subject: Indiana Pipps Again!
Message-ID: <OE38g3AmsfGdMNFmWAF000025a0@hotmail.com>

Dear Duckfuns

Thanks for the info you sent me!
I have an Indiana Goofy's special magazine from the Greek Almanako. It is a
36-pages magazine with a Indiana Goofy's story called "The African Rally" by
Diego Fazano and Giorgio Cavazzano. Code: J-2250-1 . Characters: Indiana
Goofy, Mickey Mouse
Is anybody who want that magazine?
I put a (big) cover's scan at
http://www.geocities.com/komixgreekpage/indianagoofy.htm
Best Wishes

Apostolis Trikourakis, Athens
E-mail: komix43 at hotmail.com
Web Site: http://www.geocities.com/komixgreekpage
DCML member




From markoff2 at cais.com  Mon Oct  9 22:41:24 2000
From: markoff2 at cais.com (Jonathan Markoff)
Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2000 13:41:24 -0700
Subject: Arizona Goof
In-Reply-To: <200010091000.MAA20450@numerus.ling.uu.se>
Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20001009134124.007c7c60@pop.cais.net>

The first Indiana Pipps story, "I predatori del tempio perduto," was
published in the USA by Disney (when it published its own comics for 3
years) in GOOFY ADVENTURES 12 and 13, in 1991. Dwight Decker wrote the
American script, and intended to call the character Indiana Goof, a literal
translation of the Italian. The editor changed Indiana to Arizona because
the parody seemed "too" close to the original Indiana Jones. GOOFY
ADVENTURES folded soon after, and no more Indiana Pipps stories were
published in the USA.

--Jonathan Markoff



From arthurfaria at projesom.com.br  Mon Oct  9 07:40:31 2000
From: arthurfaria at projesom.com.br (Arthur Faria Jr.)
Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2000 02:40:31 -0300
Subject: Apostolis: Brazilian stories
Message-ID: <000601c0326a$fdd39d00$a2a1fbc8@default>

Apostolis wrote:

> Finally, if any DCML member (like Arthur Faria Jr) wants to upload stories
> but he have not space to his account or he want to delete the stories in
> order to put new, I can help him! I have unlimited space so I can upload any
> story. I'll be glad to help someone!

Thanks, Apostolis! Every two weeks (I hope) I'll be uploading new
Brazilian stories in my Web space. Pick them up at will! :-)


     Tchau,
     -- Arthur.





From komix43 at hotmail.com  Tue Oct 10 13:23:40 2000
From: komix43 at hotmail.com (Apostolis Trikourakis)
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 14:23:40 +0300
Subject: Scans of "The Curse of Nostrildamus" story
Message-ID: <OE49UfKRfcjcMzfoV1q00000374@hotmail.com>

Dear Duckfans
I scanned the Don Rosa's "The Curse of Nostrildamus" story and I'll upload
it today. Take a look at "Don Rosa's Library" Section of my page.
Best wishes
Also, I'm going to scan stories like "His Magesty Mc Duck" (Don Rosa) and "7
Cities of Cibola" (Carl Barks) until Sunday.
Best Wishes

Apostolis Trikourakis, Athens
E-mail: komix43 at hotmail.com
Web Site: http://www.geocities.com/komixgreekpage
DCML member




From komix43 at hotmail.com  Tue Oct 10 13:10:06 2000
From: komix43 at hotmail.com (Apostolis Trikourakis)
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 14:10:06 +0300
Subject: Arthur: Brazilian Stories
Message-ID: <OE260goZolmRBaYFkuu0000039e@hotmail.com>

Arthur wrote:

>>>Thanks, Apostolis! Every two weeks (I hope) I'll be uploading new
>>>Brazilian stories in my Web space. Pick them up at will! :-)

Ok! Also, I would like to upload the "Donald's Marriage" story in my page
but I don't have the links to your page. Where can I find that particular
story?
Best Wishes

Apostolis Trikourakis, Athens
E-mail: komix43 at hotmail.com
Web Site: http://www.geocities.com/komixgreekpage
DCML member




From reynaud at inwind.it  Tue Oct 10 15:56:17 2000
From: reynaud at inwind.it (Pietro Reynaud-Bersanino)
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 15:56:17
Subject: About I TL 2341-1: did crime win?
In-Reply-To: <200010101000.MAA10254@numerus.ling.uu.se>
Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20001010155617.8a071ef6@popmail.inwind.it>

Who is now MM? Is he an old man (or mouse!) who is slipping on a garden
seat dreaming about the old time gone? Is he a drug addict old mouse whose
nightmare is living in inexistent town called Anderville? Is he an old
mouse who abjures his eventful past and would like to convert his bad enemy
(Peg Leg Pete) into a good man (or cat!) in order to seek a common people
life?

No!  The Mouse is entraped by the Crime Syndacate. Peg Leg Pete, the
Phantom Blot & company won! They wont to tell the new generation kids that
bad is not! 

Please Mezzavilla, please Faraci! Give him an old aeroplane, a Whaler Ship,
an Horse or any other think you like ... but let the mouse free! Let him
fight for freedom and justice, the world is waiting!
Open the mouse trap that entraped him after Floyd and Romano!

How long have we to wait for a Don Rosa of the Mouse?

The soundtrack of these e-mail is the spiritual "Go down Moses"!

All these things are written with a smile and a tear for there is no other
way of telling such things. Ciao da Pietro





From Corycrivari at aol.com  Tue Oct 10 21:55:16 2000
From: Corycrivari at aol.com (Corycrivari@aol.com)
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 15:55:16 EDT
Subject: Drawing Disney Style Comics
Message-ID: <9.ba4682d.2714ce24@aol.com>

For everyone who is interested in drawing Disney style comics, Giulio 
Chierchini, Moreno Chiste and Sandra Verda are artist writers for Topolino. 
They have produced an instructional video series entitled Pen, Ink and 
Beyond. You can get more information from their website: www.pibonline.com.

Sincerely,
Cory Crivari at aol.com



From cnotw at zen.it  Wed Oct 11 00:00:51 2000
From: cnotw at zen.it (Luca Boschi)
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 23:00:51 +0100
Subject: Comics Convention in New York
Message-ID: <20001010220609Z659501-239212+77@merganser.its.uu.se>

Hi, all!
A sort of off-topic question...
Off-topic-but-no-so-much... 
A friend of mine tells me that there is a Comics convention in New York, in
November, with many original artworks to be sold... Not as important as San
Diego, but interesting indeed.

Is there someone able to tell me who are its organizers, their telephone
numeber, or an e-mail address (maybe an Internet Newsgroup)?

Thank you in advance...

Luca



From marmelmm at drexel.edu  Wed Oct 11 00:34:30 2000
From: marmelmm at drexel.edu (M. Mitchell Marmel)
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 18:34:30 -0400
Subject: Comics Convention in New York
In-Reply-To: <20001010220609Z659501-239212+77@merganser.its.uu.se>
References: <20001010220609Z659501-239212+77@merganser.its.uu.se>
Message-ID: <v04210106b6094938e5d5@[216.158.29.118]>

At 11:00 PM +0100 10/10/00, Luca Boschi wrote:

>Is there someone able to tell me who are its organizers, their telephone
>numeber, or an e-mail address (maybe an Internet Newsgroup)?

November 10-12 2000
 
NEW YORK CITY. (toy) Big Apple Toy, Comic Book & Art Show. St. Paul 
Church Aud. 9th Ave & 60th St. Fri 12-8pm; Sat 10am-6pm. 718.326.2713

http://www.ba2k.net/

-MMM-
'71 Mercedes 250/8 "Iltis" http://www.dhc.net/~pmhack/mercedes/250711.HTM
'61 Mercedes 220b "Blue Max" 
http://www.pages.drexel.edu/grad/marmelmm/Max/bluemax.html
WdHel: "Zur Hoelle, es laeuft!"
Club mbz.org Delaware Valley Section
Club mbz.org Virtual Section
ICQ # 58305217



From kalas.puff at falkenberg.mail.telia.com  Tue Oct 10 22:13:36 2000
From: kalas.puff at falkenberg.mail.telia.com (Joakim Gunnarsson)
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 22:13:36 +0200
Subject: Carson van Osten
References: <200010091000.MAA20436@numerus.ling.uu.se>
Message-ID: <000201c03346$6a898aa0$0bc2c6c3@default>

Cory Crivari and  Fernando Ventura asked about Carson Van Ostens kit for comic strip artists.

It was published in Walt Disneys Comics and Stories #607, Gladstone, series II.
(Even if they didn't mention Carsons name...)

/Joakim Gunnarsson.





From reynaud at inwind.it  Wed Oct 11 13:02:13 2000
From: reynaud at inwind.it (Pietro Reynaud-Bersanino)
Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 13:02:13
Subject: Is Tito Faraci leaving Disney?
In-Reply-To: <200010111000.MAA02903@numerus.ling.uu.se>
Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20001011130213.35afaa14@popmail.inwind.it>

Why Tito Faraci is leaving Disney?

Ciao da Pietro!



From cnotw at zen.it  Wed Oct 11 13:52:04 2000
From: cnotw at zen.it (Luca Boschi)
Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 12:52:04 +0100
Subject: R: Carson van Osten
Message-ID: <20001011112918Z514211-35386+199@merganser.its.uu.se>

Hi, Joakim!

For me, the original message content,is impossible to be read...
What to do?

Luca



From fabio5.rossi at telecomitalia.it  Wed Oct 11 15:10:50 2000
From: fabio5.rossi at telecomitalia.it (Fabio Rossi)
Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 15:10:50 +0200
Subject: R: About I TL 2341-1: did crime win?
In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20001010155617.8a071ef6@popmail.inwind.it>
Message-ID: <000b01c03384$b0ee97e0$25163a0a@lo.telecomitalia.it>

I think MM is a bad publishing.
The feeling of story don't respect Disney's filosophy.

I WANT ROMANO AND FLOYD !




From komix43 at hotmail.com  Wed Oct 11 16:09:43 2000
From: komix43 at hotmail.com (Apostolis Trikourakis)
Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 17:09:43 +0300
Subject: New scanned stories
Message-ID: <OE412U8QVjp3b6uIU1G000003f1@hotmail.com>

Dear Duckfans

I put some scanned stories, like the "Curse of Nostrildamus", "The Incident
at McDuck Tower", by Son Rosa and the "7 Cities of Cibola" at
http://www.crosswinds.net/~komixgreekpage/englishindex.htm
Also, I will upload some Rosa's stories (Hearts of Yukon, His Majesty
McDuck) soon.
Best Wishes

Apostolis Trikourakis, Athens
E-mail: komix43 at hotmail.com
Web Site: http://www.geocities.com/komixgreekpage
DCML member




From arthurfaria at projesom.com.br  Wed Oct 11 18:50:22 2000
From: arthurfaria at projesom.com.br (Arthur Faria Jr.)
Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 13:50:22 -0300
Subject: Apostolis: DD's Marriage; All: Don Rosa's Kalevala
Message-ID: <000201c033ae$aba4bc40$54abfbc8@default>

    Apostolis wrote:

> Also, I would like to upload the "Donald's Marriage" story in my page
> but I don't have the links to your page. Where can I find that particular
> story?

I uploaded it in 4 parts:

- 1st part can be found at:

http://members.forez.com/alfredsirven/index.html

- 2nd and 3rd parts were uploaded a month ago (already
deleted now). I don't know if somebody get them.
I can upload them again if you can't find them.

- Last part is still at:

http://www.projesom.com.br/afaria/b_fethry/

>I scanned the Don Rosa's "The Curse of Nostrildamus" story and I'll upload
>it today. Take a look at "Don Rosa's Library" Section of my page.
>Also, I'm going to scan stories like "His Magesty Mc Duck" (Don Rosa) 

    Great! :-)

    ALL:

Don Rosa's "Quest for Kalevala" has been published in 
October issue (# 423) of Brazilian "Tio Patinhas"
(3 part version). Unhappily in Abril Jovem's ridicule "small format"
(13 x 19 cm) and scan resolution just acceptable :-(

Well, since Don's stories are rare over here, it's welcome
anyway.

     Tchau,
     -- Arthur.






From komix43 at hotmail.com  Wed Oct 11 19:43:21 2000
From: komix43 at hotmail.com (Apostolis Trikourakis)
Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 20:43:21 +0300
Subject: Apostolis: DD's Marriage; All: Don Rosa's Kalevala
Message-ID: <OE27ii08N8yxdZjfNLn00000771@hotmail.com>

Arthur wrote:

>>>- 2nd and 3rd parts were uploaded a month ago (already
>>>deleted now). I don't know if somebody get them.
>>>I can upload them again if you can't find them.

Please, try to upload them again! Who is the creator of Donald's Marriage
story?
Best Wishes

Apostolis Trikourakis, Athens
E-mail: komix43 at hotmail.com
Web Site: http://www.geocities.com/komixgreekpage
DCML member




From H.W.Fluks at kpn.com  Wed Oct 11 21:13:53 2000
From: H.W.Fluks at kpn.com (Fluks, H.W.)
Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 20:13:53 +0100
Subject: About I TL 2341-1: did crime win?
Message-ID: <59063B5B4D98D311BC0D0001FA7E452202075EFF@l04.research.kpn.com>

> From: Fabio Rossi [mailto:fabio5.rossi at telecomitalia.it]
> Sent: Wednesday, October 11, 2000 2:11 PM

> I WANT ROMANO AND FLOYD !

I just read a Giorgio story, and he is not bad either! 8-)

--Harry.
(Balm? Gladstone? Reeves? Wiegman?  - no: Fluks.)



From pati at iki.fi  Wed Oct 11 22:50:37 2000
From: pati at iki.fi (Pekka Timonen)
Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 23:50:37 +0300
Subject: New scanned stories
References: <OE412U8QVjp3b6uIU1G000003f1@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <002101c033c4$e8e80420$5c0e6a0a@arenanet.fi>

> Dear Duckfans
>
> I put some scanned stories, like the "Curse of Nostrildamus", "The
Incident
> at McDuck Tower", by Son Rosa and the "7 Cities of Cibola" at
> http://www.crosswinds.net/~komixgreekpage/englishindex.htm
> Also, I will upload some Rosa's stories (Hearts of Yukon, His Majesty
> McDuck) soon.
> Best Wishes
>
Dear Apostolis,

Do you have permission to do that?
--
Pekka Timonen (pati at iki.fi)





From fernandopventura at uol.com.br  Wed Oct 11 23:55:55 2000
From: fernandopventura at uol.com.br (Fernando Ventura)
Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 18:55:55 -0300
Subject: Brazilian Kalevala and thanks to Joakim
Message-ID: <002101c033ce$09d1d540$1bd9bfc8@v2h5i1>

Yes! Kalevala is finally published in Brazil and came to the newstands
today! Really great history! Unfortunatelly without the
extra-"funny"page...and it received a brazilian cover, probably draw by
Euclides Miyaura! It's the second Rosa history published here this year, I
think, the other is "Escape from Forbidden Valley". So maybe we, brazilians,
will see more and more Rosa's comics! GREAT! I can't wait for "The Three
Caballeros Rides Again"... :)

The brazilian name is "Em Busca de Kalevala".

"Cory Crivari and  Fernando Ventura asked about Carson Van Ostens kit for
comic strip artists.

It was published in Walt Disneys Comics and Stories #607, Gladstone, series
II.
(Even if they didn't mention Carsons name...)

/Joakim Gunnarsson."

Thanks Joakim! Hum...Any more details about it?

Many thanks,
Fernando!




From komix43 at hotmail.com  Thu Oct 12 00:17:41 2000
From: komix43 at hotmail.com (Apostolis Trikourakis)
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 01:17:41 +0300
Subject: New scanned stories: Are we have permission to do that?
Message-ID: <OE515AExgTVxPTi68Kt00000906@hotmail.com>

Pekka Timonen wrote:

>>>Do you have permission to do that?

Well, that's a very good question. I think you already know the answer. But
MY answer is NO, WE don't have permision to scan stories. But that's not the
point. The point is that we don't have permission for making pages or
scanning images or transfering articles in the web, not only scanning
stories. But my opinion is that the Internet is a living world, with any
kind of information. The permission is a problem for all us who want to make
a page with our favourite topic. I don't scanning stories for getting money.
I'll never pay for that, and I don't want either. I'm scanning stories, I'm
spending time and money for my Internet connection and I will never take my
time and my money back. I'm doing all that because I love Disney stories and
I want all of us to have a chance to read some very nice stories. Do you
want for all us to shut down our pages because of a stupid law which saying
that only the company have the copyrights? If you have any other that you
want to say, I'll glad to hear you again.
Best Wishes

Apostolis Trikourakis, Athens
E-mail: komix43 at hotmail.com
Web Site: http://www.geocities.com/komixgreekpage
DCML member




From eliot508 at yahoo.com  Thu Oct 12 07:47:19 2000
From: eliot508 at yahoo.com (F. A. Elliott)
Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 22:47:19 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: New scanned stories: Are we have permission to do that?
Message-ID: <20001012054719.21404.qmail@web2006.mail.yahoo.com>

From: Apostolis Trikourakis
>The permission is a problem for all us who want to 
>make a page with our favourite topic. I don't
>scanning stories for getting money. I'll never pay
>for that, and I don't want either. I'm scanning
>stories, I'm spending time and money for my Internet
>connection and I will never take my time and my money
>back. I'm doing all that because I love Disney
>stories and I want all of us to have a chance to read
>some very nice stories. Do you want for all us to
>shut down our pages because of a stupid law which
>saying that only the company have the copyrights? 

Well said.

Thanks and God bless, 

F.A. Elliott.

=====
The 'one' who has a finger on 'it'... scratches against the mahogany lining of a coffin crying, "I am Jonah! I am Jonah! Spit me back out so I may see and feel the light of day again." And, the levithan does not heed for it knows every great epic must come to an 'end.'
A tasty morsel known as... "understanding."  (F.A. Elliott)

      




__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere!
http://mail.yahoo.com/



From H.W.Fluks at kpn.com  Thu Oct 12 10:43:06 2000
From: H.W.Fluks at kpn.com (Fluks, H.W.)
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 09:43:06 +0100
Subject: New scanned stories: DO we have permission to do that?
Message-ID: <59063B5B4D98D311BC0D0001FA7E452202075F07@l04.research.kpn.com>

> From: Apostolis Trikourakis [mailto:komix43 at hotmail.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, October 11, 2000 11:18 PM

> WE don't have permision to scan stories. But that's not the
> point. The point is that we don't have permission for making pages or
> scanning images or transfering articles in the web, not only scanning
> stories.

- An image is a part of a story, and can be regarded a "quote". Quoting is
allowed in common copyright laws. (Disney may be interpreting these laws in
their own way, though...)

- Articles are *about* Disney comics, and everyone is free to write an
article (and use quotes in that article).

- But *entire stories* is a different thing. This is simple copyright
violation. Not only Disney would say so, by *any* company or person owning a
copyright.

Scanning Brazilian stories serves a good cause: it is very unlikely that the
rest of the world would be able to see and read those stories. So to my own
moral standards, it's a Good Thing.

But the Barks and Rosa stories are still available from everywhere in the
world. With your scans on the Web, people don't need to buy (for instance)
the Gladstone comics. So you are in fact stealing money from these companies
(without gaining any money yourself).

> Do you
> want for all us to shut down our pages because of a stupid 
> law which saying that only the company have the copyrights?

There is plenty on (y)our webpages that can stay there, so no need to shut
down.
And the copyright law is not stupid. It's common sense to protect the
creativity of individuals.

--Harry.



From frspreaf at tin.it  Thu Oct 12 12:26:04 2000
From: frspreaf at tin.it (Francesco Spreafico)
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 12:26:04 +0200
Subject: New scanned stories: DO we have permission to do that?
References: <59063B5B4D98D311BC0D0001FA7E452202075F07@l04.research.kpn.com>
Message-ID: <00af01c03437$8eb2c4e0$3a0f0f97@maul>

From: "Fluks, H.W." <H.W.Fluks at kpn.com>

> But the Barks and Rosa stories are still available from everywhere in the
> world. With your scans on the Web, people don't need to buy (for instance)
> the Gladstone comics. So you are in fact stealing money from these
companies
> (without gaining any money yourself).

And isn't that what the companies do to the Authors? ;-) (with the big
difference that they do gain money themselves)

--
Sprea




From jvainio at levi.urova.fi  Thu Oct 12 14:26:53 2000
From: jvainio at levi.urova.fi (Vainio Jyrki)
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 15:26:53 +0300 (EET)
Subject: 1.1 million Finns can't be wrong
In-Reply-To: <200010111000.MAA02907@numerus.ling.uu.se>
Message-ID: <Pine.A41.4.10.10010121510590.134002-100000@levi.urova.fi>

A couple of days ago it was reported in Helsingin Sanomat that according
to a national media survey 752 000 Finns over the age of 12 and 316 000
Finns under the same age read Aku Ankka, the Finnish Disney weekly. That
brings the total readership of the title up to nearly 1,1 MILLION people,
which is more than 20% of the entire population of the country. Needless
to say that also makes Aku Ankka to be the most widely read magazine in
Finland.

---Jyrki Vainio, Finland

P.S. All you Barks fans out there might want to check out the September
issue of THE COMICS JOURNAL (#227) which tributes Carl Barks. There are
essays on his life and his work by, among others, Bruce Hamilton and
R.C.Harvey (and Don Rosa's there, too). But at least for me the most
important portions were the articles compiled by Geoffrey Blum and Donald
Ault: one gathering quotes from Barks's correspondence, one including
excerpts from interviews and one transcribing (all of?) the video "The
Duck Man: An interview with Carl Barks" made in 1975. On these you can
hear Barks discussing his life and work in his OWN words - and since these
are dating back to a period when he still hadn't done this ad nauseam they
are a very enlightening and entertaining read. I think here he is more
open about his views and thoughts and about evaluating his own work than
he was later on.




From jgarvin at bendcable.com  Thu Oct 12 17:55:23 2000
From: jgarvin at bendcable.com (john garvin)
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 08:55:23 -0700
Subject: the internet, copyright, and what's right...
References: <200010121000.MAA28625@numerus.ling.uu.se>
Message-ID: <39E5DEEB.D4E7FA11@bendcable.com>

I have a very simple philosophy in regards to what I am willing to upload onto the net:  Am I depriving a living creator of any financial reward by posting their creation on the net?  If the answer is yes, I won't post it.  In other words, if I post a comic story, am I
making it so that someone does not have to buy that story to read it?  For this reason, I would never scan and post a "Bone" story by Jeff Smith.  If you want to read a full Bone story, you can buy the comic.  The money goes to Mr. Smith and he deserves it.

I personally do not put corporations in the category of "creator". The corporation may legally own the characters, and could certainly stop someone from illegally profiting from them, but the corporation does not earn my loyalty and respect.  I save that for the person who
sweats over his drawing table.  Furthermore, Disney, especially, I think, is one of the biggest violators of the spirit of copyright law in the history of media.  As Don Rosa has pointed out numerous times to this list, he creates (and gets paid for) a story ONCE, then
Disney takes that story and uses it in its media machinery all across the world without further remuneration to the him, the creator.  You post a foreign Don Rosa story here, and you don't cost Don Rosa a cent.  I frankly don't care what it "costs" the Disney corporation.
If Disney treated its creators better, I might feel differently.

On a related note, I think we are on the verge of an information revolution.  I've seen it coming ever since I started to think about the true information-sharing power of the internet.  The bottom line is that greedy corporations, or anyone else,  have little power to
stop us from doing whatever we want in this new on-line world, right or wrong.

And is it wrong?  I think the concept of "ownership" is considerably more blurred than Disney would have us believe.  As an example, take the paintings of Carl Barks.  Yes they contain characters to which Disney holds the copyright.  But in some sense, doesn't "art" belong
to the world and everyone in it?  Could the curators of the Louvre copyright the image of the Mona Lisa and make everyone on the internet stop using it?  Could they force everyone in the world who wants to see a reproduction of the image pay for the privilege?  No, I don't
think so.  I'm in the process of building a website which showcases the paintings of Carl Barks, just as another might build a website devoted to the works of Leonardo.  These images do not belong to Disney, they belong to all of us.  There is beauty in those images, and a
playful tranformative power in the juxtaposition of cartoon characters and realistic renderings.  Carl is the one who spent weeks of time and buckets of sweat turning an empty sheet of masonite into a work of art, not Disney.  I owe it to Carl to see to it that his work is
seen and enjoyed by anyone who wants to.  I owe Disney very little.  The internet is going to make Disney's rantings to the contrary, moot.





From favio31 at caramail.com  Thu Oct 12 18:59:43 2000
From: favio31 at caramail.com (Thierry Fernand)
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 18:59:43 +0200
Subject: New Brazilian story online
Message-ID: <971373447002809@caramail.com>

I completely agree with John Garvin about copyright matters. Thankd for your input!

I have just uploaded a new Brazilian story in English that was missing from my site:

http://mailotron.forez.com/sites/aldo/const.php3?d=b870143&n=1&f=11
or for the main site:
http://members.forez.com/alfredsirven/index.html

Livia Online also presents some new Rosa stories and an Italian original story by Scarrone. 
Point your browser to:
http://members.forez.com/livia/

I'm sorry to say that I missed parts 2 and 3 of the Donald Marriage story (due to lack of time).
If anyone can send it to me, I'd be very grateful. Another old one I still haven't found is B 860038 "It can shine like 
gold, but..". Thanks very much for your help!

 Favio
______________________________________________________
Bo?te aux lettres - Caramail - http://www.caramail.com


From p.castagno at libero.it  Thu Oct 12 19:12:52 2000
From: p.castagno at libero.it (Paolo Castagno)
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 19:12:52 +0200
Subject: Hungarian Disney comics?
Message-ID: <39E5F114.BDEEBD5A@libero.it>

Hello,

Since I'm going to leave for Budapest for 5 days, I'd like to
know if there is any kind of Disney publication in Hungary, or
also used comic books stores...

Any Hungarian on this list?

  - Paolo

-- 
http://members.xoom.it/inducks  mailto:p.castagno at libero.it

'Ho finito proprio adesso di contare il mio denaro! Ho impiegato
tredici anni, ed ora non mi ricordo il totale!'
(Zio paperone in W OS  456-02)




From rodney-selfhelpbikeco at juno.com  Fri Oct 13 00:10:05 2000
From: rodney-selfhelpbikeco at juno.com (Rodney w bowcock jr.)
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 18:10:05 -0400
Subject: copyright issues
Message-ID: <20001012.181013.-30251.0.rodney-selfhelpbikeco@juno.com>

in many ways i do agree with Harry's comments regarding copyrights.  it
*does* keep people from buying the original product in many cases, but
(do i see shades of Napster here?) something that Harry, and many others
might not realize, is that comics are a dying field in the USA.  Kids
simply don't read them anymore.  At my local comic shop kids come in,
stand at the counter to buy their Pokemon cards and run out, without
noticing the big white boxes throughout the store.  They simply don't
realize what they're missing.  

Just like how many music groups don't mind their stuff being on Napster
because it turns people onto music that they may not hear if they had to
pay for it, I view downloading of Barks and Rosa stories the same way. 
If 1 person, who has never read Barks or Rosa before gets the chance to
do so because of a story on the internet, it was for a good cause.  

Yes it is a copyright violation but there is no way that Disney could
ever keep track of all of the downloaded stories on the web.  We need to
keep in mind that we are *not* stealing from Barks or Rosa, or even
Gladstone for that matter, (because backissues sold in comic shops have
already been bought by the comic shop).  So who are we stealing from? 
certainly not Disney.  they have obviously no plans to do anything with
these stories in this country.  not the comic shops.  if anything i'd
think they'd be grateful that now there might be some kids who would buy
up those stacks of Uncle Scrooge comics that have been filling up space
for 10 years. I have the original stories and would much rather read them
on paper than on my monitor screen, but if I didn't have them, I would
read them and then run out and buy them. 

So what's my point?  Doing this hurts no one, and has the potential to
help millions.  While I question whether this should be encouraged, I
also question whether we should be discouraging this...........
 
Rodney Bowcock


________________________________________________________________
YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET!
Juno now offers FREE Internet Access!
Try it today - there's no risk!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.



From reynaud at inwind.it  Fri Oct 13 08:07:19 2000
From: reynaud at inwind.it (Pietro Reynaud-Bersanino)
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 08:07:19
Subject: DCML digest, Vol 1 #286 - 12 msgs
In-Reply-To: <200010121000.MAA28625@numerus.ling.uu.se>
Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20001013080719.2ab70018@popmail.inwind.it>

At 12.00 12/10/00 +0200, Harry wrote:

> the copyright law is not stupid. It's common sense to protect the
>creativity of individuals.


From kyrimis at cti.gr  Fri Oct 13 09:23:28 2000
From: kyrimis at cti.gr (Kriton Kyrimis)
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 10:23:28 +0300 (EET DST)
Subject: New scanned stories: DO we have permission to do that?
In-Reply-To: <200010121000.MAA28633@numerus.ling.uu.se>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.21.0010131007070.24947-100000@dias>

APOSTOLIS, HARRY:

> > Do you
> > want for all us to shut down our pages because of a stupid 
> > law which saying that only the company have the copyrights?
> 
> And the copyright law is not stupid. It's common sense to protect the
> creativity of individuals.

I'll have to agree with Harry here. How would you feel, Apostolis,
if you spent a great deal of effort in writing a story, then selling
0 copies of it, just because an enthusiastic young man like yourself
had posted it to the web, and people didn't need to go out and buy the
actual book to read your story? Or how would you feel if Egmont's sales
dropped significantly, because people would read new stories on the web,
scanned from a copy hot off the press, and they decided that they couldn't
afford to pay people like Don to produce new stories?

Disney may be stretching the interpretation of Copyright laws in their
favor, but fighting this cannot be done by trying to break exactly those
things that these laws intend to protect; you are only giving Disney
extra ammunition to enforce their views.

	Kriton	(e-mail: kyrimis at cti.gr)
	      	(WWW:    http://dias.cti.gr/~kyrimis)
-----
"Nobody would have the gumption to tell the captain of the U.S.S. Enterprise
 he couldn't have his doctor, his dentist, his favorite carpenter, or his dog
 groomer at his side if he wanted to, security clearance or not."
-----




From H.W.Fluks at kpn.com  Fri Oct 13 10:51:36 2000
From: H.W.Fluks at kpn.com (Fluks, H.W.)
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 09:51:36 +0100
Subject: Copyrights
Message-ID: <59063B5B4D98D311BC0D0001FA7E452202075F28@l04.research.kpn.com>

Pietro Reynaud-Bersanino:

> Thomas Jefferson, in a very different time - true - but 
> correctly, noted  -
> that "one man's knowledge does never diminish another's"

There is a difference between knowledge and art. I agree that knowledge
should not be kept from anyone (but still the origin of the knowledge should
be credited). This is continuously happening in the scientific world.
This is also the intention with our Inducks database, for instance.

But *art* is a different matter. It was made with a different purpose. And
it is not more than fair to protect the creative process with a copyright
law.


Rodney:

> something that Harry, and many others
> might not realize, is that comics are a dying field in the USA.

I do realise that. I have been experiencing it several times. 8-)

> Yes it is a copyright violation but there is no way that Disney could
> ever keep track of all of the downloaded stories on the web.

I'm not sure about that. Disney might threaten the mostly-used providers
with lawsuits, and then *noone* will be allowed to have *any* website
related to Disney. I'm not sure this will happen, but with Disney you can
expect anything.

> We need to
> keep in mind that we are *not* stealing from Barks or Rosa, or even
> Gladstone for that matter, (because backissues sold in comic 
> shops have already been bought by the comic shop).

Back issues can still be ordered from Gladstone (or the Bruce Hamilton
Company), if I'm not mistaken. (And Gladstone's "Library in Color" is still
for sale in many European book shops.)

--Harry.



From komix43 at hotmail.com  Fri Oct 13 11:20:26 2000
From: komix43 at hotmail.com (Apostolis Trikourakis)
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 12:20:26 +0300
Subject: Copyrights
Message-ID: <OE49kpCCuc5bWsgHUgw00000a06@hotmail.com>

Kriton wrote:

>I'll have to agree with Harry here. How would you feel, Apostolis,
>if you spent a great deal of effort in writing a story, then selling
>0 copies of it, just because an enthusiastic young man like yourself
>had posted it to the web, and people didn't need to go out and buy the
>actual book to read your story?

I agree with you. But the stories that I'm scanning (and not only mine
scans) is already published in Europe (or the most of them). So, I think
that any European disney fan have already a copy of these stories. In U.S.A.
there are not disney comics. Where the fans will find their favourite story?
Well, they can order issues from Europe, or they can read the stories from
the web. Finally, a good fan is not the fan who is collecting scanning
stories. I have a lot of Don Rosa's stories from KOMIX and I'll keep buying
it even if Komix publish a story that I already have in scans. The sense of
a story in the paper, the coloring, the quality is much better than the
scanned stories. Apart from quality, all (or the most) the scanned stories
are in English. Someone who can't read english in a right way, he must wait
until his country's disney magazine will publish it. So, not all the scanned
stories are familiar with their readers. All of us want the original copies
from the disney magazines (Komix, Picsou, Zio Paperone, Anders And, Anku
Ankka and many-many other good magazines) we like, not only the scans.
With the scanned stories we're giving a chance to all the Don Rosa's fans to
read some stories that are unpublished in the U.S.A. And think about: we
don't want money for doing that. We only doing that because we want it to
do. Internet is a free world, arts must be free in both real and Internet
worlds. And comics IS an art.
Best Wishes

Apostolis Trikourakis, Athens
E-mail: komix43 at hotmail.com
Web Site: http://www.geocities.com/komixgreekpage
DCML member




From hans.kiesl at sowi.uni-bamberg.de  Fri Oct 13 11:58:44 2000
From: hans.kiesl at sowi.uni-bamberg.de (Hans Kiesl)
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 11:58:44 GMT+0200
Subject: Swedish Disney writers
Message-ID: <55F5229A7@urz01.urz.uni-bamberg.de>

A question to the Swedish list members:

In an old issue of a German fanzine (Nov. 1977) I found the 
translation of an article from "Aftonbladet" which deals with Disney 
comics from Sweden. 

Several writers of Disney stories are mentioned: Ulf Nilsson, 
a librarian from Ronneby (only one story published); Erling Frick, 
a teacher from Avesta (only a few stories published); Margareta 
Wilson, a teacher from Helsingborg (more than 70 stories published). 
They all wrote for Gutenberghus (Denmark).

There is no information about these persons in Inducks or on the DCML 
site. Does anyone know more about them?

-Hans-



From kyrimis at cti.gr  Fri Oct 13 13:19:49 2000
From: kyrimis at cti.gr (Kriton Kyrimis)
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 14:19:49 +0300 (EET DST)
Subject: DCML digest, Vol 1 #287 - 10 msgs
In-Reply-To: <200010131000.MAA20636@numerus.ling.uu.se>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.21.0010131411090.1697-100000@dias>

APOSTOLIS:

> Apart from quality, all (or the most) the scanned stories
> are in English. Someone who can't read english in a right way, he must wait
> until his country's disney magazine will publish it.

This argument would have been more valid if you were talking about scanned
pages of KOMIX, which few people, apart from Greeks, would be able to
read them.  The majority of people on the Internet (and certainly this
list) can read English, which is the de facto language on the Internet.

	Kriton	(e-mail: kyrimis at cti.gr)
	      	(WWW:    http://dias.cti.gr/~kyrimis)
-----
"Nobody would have the gumption to tell the captain of the U.S.S. Enterprise
 he couldn't have his doctor, his dentist, his favorite carpenter, or his dog
 groomer at his side if he wanted to, security clearance or not."
-----




From fabio5.rossi at telecomitalia.it  Fri Oct 13 12:35:39 2000
From: fabio5.rossi at telecomitalia.it (Fabio Rossi)
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 12:35:39 +0200
Subject: R: About I TL 2341-1: did crime win?
In-Reply-To: <59063B5B4D98D311BC0D0001FA7E452202075EFF@l04.research.kpn.com>
Message-ID: <000001c03501$560e6fc0$25163a0a@lo.telecomitalia.it>

> -----Messaggio originale-----
> Da: Fluks, H.W. [mailto:H.W.Fluks at kpn.com]
> Inviato: mercoled? 11 ottobre 2000 21.14
> A: dcml at stp.ling.uu.se
> Oggetto: RE: About I TL 2341-1: did crime win?
> 
> I just read a Giorgio story, and he is not bad either! 8-)
> 
> --Harry.
> (Balm? Gladstone? Reeves? Wiegman?  - no: Fluks.)

uh?

oh! yes!
the Cavazzano/Mezzavilla story appeared in Italy is a good story, strange, but good.

Excuse me for a bad explanation, but I referred my disappoint to new Mickey Mouse italian pubblication (MM);
in this case Mickey live in Anderville and the story is "noir" and more realistic, 
bah! this pubblication (MM) is poor and the crime WIN.






From reimersholme at hotmail.com  Fri Oct 13 17:40:05 2000
From: reimersholme at hotmail.com (Stefan Persson)
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 17:40:05 +0200
Subject: Swedish Disney writers
References: <55F5229A7@urz01.urz.uni-bamberg.de>
Message-ID: <OE32AsK6ExU8raUMTzF00000719@hotmail.com>

----- Original Message -----
From: "Hans Kiesl" <hans.kiesl at sowi.uni-bamberg.de>
To: <dcml at stp.ling.uu.se>
Sent: Friday, October 13, 2000 1:58 PM
Subject: Swedish Disney writers


> In an old issue of a German fanzine (Nov. 1977) I found the
> translation of an article from "Aftonbladet" which deals with Disney
> comics from Sweden.

Aftonbladet published Donald Duck dailies 38/7/4 to 96/31/12, if anyone's
interested.



From alexiov at libero.it  Sat Oct 14 16:51:34 2000
From: alexiov at libero.it (Alessandro Iovino)
Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2000 16:51:34 +0200
Subject: hungarian disney comics
Message-ID: <39E88F16.31219.60C294@localhost>

Hi Paolo,

I was in Budapest two years ago, and I got a Disney comic 
magazine called Donald Kacsa.

I asked for it at a newspaper kiosk.

Have a god trip!

Alex



From UNDBKB at aol.com  Sat Oct 14 18:19:58 2000
From: UNDBKB at aol.com (UNDBKB@aol.com)
Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2000 12:19:58 EDT
Subject: Scotland
Message-ID: <ea.bfcb7c2.2719e1ae@aol.com>

I will be traveling to Scotland on the 19th of October, and staying near 
Edinburgh.  Does any member know of nearby shops selling Disney material.  
Thanks in advance!
Barry.



From kalas.puff at falkenberg.mail.telia.com  Sat Oct 14 18:44:41 2000
From: kalas.puff at falkenberg.mail.telia.com (Joakim Gunnarsson)
Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2000 18:44:41 +0200
Subject: Erling Frick 
References: <200010141000.MAA04590@numerus.ling.uu.se>
Message-ID: <008801c03601$1e2e6c80$4338fcc3@default>

Hans wrote:
> A question to the Swedish list members:[...]
> Several writers of Disney stories are mentioned: [...]; Erling Frick, 
> a teacher from Avesta (only a few stories published[...]
>Does anyone know more about them?

I was in touch with Erling only two days ago via e-mail about 
non-Disney related stuff. 
But if you want I can ask him for whatever info you want. 
Please send your questions to me off-list and I'll then forward them to Erling. 

/Joakim Gunnarsson,
   Malmo, Sweden





From klezmerallthatjazz at earthlink.net  Sat Oct 14 17:58:57 2000
From: klezmerallthatjazz at earthlink.net (Shelley Hanson/KlezmerAllThatJazz)
Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2000 10:58:57 -0500
Subject: Copyright
Message-ID: <B60DECEE.860%klezmerallthatjazz@earthlink.net>

There is one additional factor you have all failed to consider in your very
interesting debate on copyright.

In the United States, and I'm sure in most countries, there is the "Fair Use
Doctrine." Material which is OUT OF PRINT may be duplicated and used for
study. Therefore, a person, say a professor at a university, legally may
xerox an article from a journal and use it for research, or send it to
someone somewhere else (somewhere in nowhere?) who needs it but doesn't have
access to the original.

This means that it is okay to upload a story, AFTER IT IS NOT AVAILABLE IN
STORES. If you wait one month, until the next issue is out, it is legal. But
you CAN NOT do this if someone could still buy it. Remember this is for
study purposes -- you can't be making any money on this. Where Disney could
sue you is if they say they are re-printing this -- this is a little tricky.

Another part of the law says that you can quote short excerpts from
something as part of a scholarly study. So if someone wants to upload, for
instance, some of the censored art which Barks (and others) later changed
when it was reprinted,  it is absolutely legal to upload the original panels
and then the changed ones. So to be safer, you might not want to upload a
whole story all at the same time.

However, if something is still available for purchase and you upload it, you
are violating the law (and hurting the publisher, who may stop publishing
the stories, thus hurting all of us). In the United States, everything is
out of print (this is why there is not a next generation of readers of duck
comics). So I don't think anyone is violating U.S. copyright law doing this,
especially issues from European countries which we can't buy in the U.S., as
long as they wait until the next issue is in the stores. But whether you are
violating your own countries' laws, you will have to check.


Does anyone know when "Somewhere in Nowhere" will be published? Thanks.





From andrae at california.com  Sat Oct 14 18:13:52 2000
From: andrae at california.com (andrae)
Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2000 09:13:52 -0700
Subject: Comics Journal Tribute to Carl Barks
Message-ID: <l03130302b60dd313e916@[209.3.225.141]>

Thanks for mentioning The Barks tribute in the Comics Journal and the
transcription of the Barks video that is reprinted there.  Unfortunately my
name was left off the interview.  Don Ault and I did the interview together
in 1975. It has never been fully reprinted before.

I produced the video tape version called "The Duck Man: An interview with
Carl Barks."  It took me and a professional editor about six to eight
months of work to put it together.  I wanted to make certin that the clip
of Carl drawing Uncle Scrooge got preserved.  The entire tape was
disintegrating because of its age and we had to send out this one section
to a technician to make a special print of it to preserve it. The rest of
the tape had to be fed through an old video player a little at a time
because the tape wouldn't play well on contemporary machines.  I feel very
fortunate that we were able to preserve this rare tape and present it to
fans even in its imperfect state. I think it offers a glimpse of Carl that
heighlights his great charm and humor. I hope that those of you that have
it you have enjoyed watching it.

Sincerely,

Tom Andrae

Robin Andrae
Tom Andrae
andrae at global.california.com






From agridiot at spidernet.net  Sun Oct 15 10:41:47 2000
From: agridiot at spidernet.net (Agridiotis)
Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 01:41:47 -0700
Subject: member
Message-ID: <001901c03683$c30b7ea0$8d929ac2@8944cjn72961>

Dear DCML members i'm a new member from Nicosia in Cyprus and i read the greek disney magazines.
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From komix43 at hotmail.com  Sun Oct 15 00:51:40 2000
From: komix43 at hotmail.com (Apostolis Trikourakis)
Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 01:51:40 +0300
Subject: member
Message-ID: <OE101FFK7dcLdZs3JcX000010da@hotmail.com>

>>>Dear DCML members i'm a new member from Nicosia in Cyprus and i read the
=
>>>greek disney magazines.

Welcome to DCML, Agridiotis!
Best Wishes

Apostolis Trikourakis, Athens
E-mail: komix43 at hotmail.com & komix at compulink.gr
Web Site: http://www.geocities.com/komixgreekpage
DCML member




From agridiot at spidernet.net  Sun Oct 15 11:16:03 2000
From: agridiot at spidernet.net (Agridiotis)
Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 02:16:03 -0700
Subject: story
Message-ID: <000a01c03688$8c6ed5e0$8d929ac2@8944cjn72961>

Dear DCML members i searched for the story "Three Caballeros ride Again". If
anybody have it please message me




From markoff2 at cais.com  Sun Oct 15 06:02:19 2000
From: markoff2 at cais.com (Jonathan Markoff)
Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2000 21:02:19 -0700
Subject: The Robin Hoods of the Web
In-Reply-To: <200010141000.MAA04600@numerus.ling.uu.se>
Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20001014210219.007cad20@pop.cais.net>

"Should Disney comics be downloaded?" has been the main question for the
last few days. It seems to me that John Garvin's view is that Disney has
abused its property rights and violated moral laws, if not legal ones, so
its property rights desrve no respect. The best analogy I can thin of is
the Underground Railroad. Helping slaves to become free was illegal before
1861, but since slavery was an atrocity against humans, it was no moral
crime to break that law. Does this make sense?

--Jonathan Markoff



From markoff2 at cais.com  Sun Oct 15 06:21:22 2000
From: markoff2 at cais.com (Jonathan Markoff)
Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2000 21:21:22 -0700
Subject: The Robin Hoods of the Web (postscript)
Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20001014212122.007d0480@pop.cais.net>

Imagine this scenario: you own a copy of the printed comic book UNCLE
SCROOGE 386, the latest issue of Gladstone's third or fourth run of
publishing. Your neighbor is considering buying it, but doesn't know if the
stories are ones he wants to spend $7 on. So you lend him your copy, and it
turns out that he hates the stories in it. Ergo, he does not spend the $7
to buy his own copy. Have you, therefore, robbed Gladstone of $7, even if
you didn't get any money yourself?

(I appreciate the web, but find cyber-comic-reading aggravating--it feels
inherently like I'm just borrowing a "copy" which is not my own.)

--Jonathan Markoff



From reimersholme at hotmail.com  Sun Oct 15 10:47:10 2000
From: reimersholme at hotmail.com (Stefan Persson)
Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 10:47:10 +0200
Subject: story
References: <000a01c03688$8c6ed5e0$8d929ac2@8944cjn72961>
Message-ID: <OE22UexvjWWULt2vGVw000015ca@hotmail.com>

----- Original Message -----
From: "Agridiotis" <agridiot at spidernet.net>
To: "DCML" <dcml at stp.ling.uu.se>
Sent: Sunday, October 15, 2000 11:16 AM
Subject: story


> Dear DCML members i searched for the story "Three Caballeros ride Again".
If anybody have it please message me

It has just been published as a three-part-story in Sweden, with the last
part out the day before yesterday:

00-40o      D2000-002      9 4 @    DR  DR      DD  Tre caballeros kommer
|           tillbaka [xapp:JW,DD,JOC,
|           PAC] [part:1]
00-41l      D2000-002     10 4 @                DD  Tre caballeros kommer
|           tillbaka [part:2]
00-42n      D2000-002      9 4 @                DD  Tre caballeros kommer
|           tillbaka [part:3]



From agridiot at spidernet.net  Sun Oct 15 23:30:22 2000
From: agridiot at spidernet.net (Agridiotis)
Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 14:30:22 -0700
Subject: picsu
Message-ID: <001e01c036ef$611c4460$e5999ac2@8944cjn72961>

Dear DCML member i would like to read a picsu magazine because it is one of
the best comics in Europe. If anyone send me one i can to send him an
example of greek komix
Best wishes




From sko at acoustics.dk  Sun Oct 15 15:20:16 2000
From: sko at acoustics.dk (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?S=F8ren?= Krarup Olesen)
Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 15:20:16 +0200
Subject: Publication of Disney art
Message-ID: <00101515265200.02507@raptus.dk>

Hi folks.

Just wanted you to know, that the Internet is not the only
non-paper place to publish Disney art. Ten minuttes ago, I picked up
this Slow Scan Television (SSTV) image from shortwave at 14.2332 Mhz:

http://acoustics.auc.dk/~sko/tmp/hdl.gif

Quite cute, if you ask me, and transmitted by some French F5TA (whoever
he or she is :-)

Any radio amateurs onboard this mailing list?

Søren



From dmarkstein at earthlink.net  Sun Oct 15 15:44:11 2000
From: dmarkstein at earthlink.net (Donald Markstein)
Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 06:44:11 -0700
Subject: Hi -- Remember Me?
References: <200010151000.MAA17567@numerus.ling.uu.se>
Message-ID: <003501c036ae$07551600$0c93fc9e@quack>

I've been remiss in not responding to this list for months on end, but I do
at least glance over it when it comes in, and often I read parts of it, no
matter how busy I am. And I SHOULD respond to a lot of stuff here. I just --
well, don't.

But I absolutely can not let this interpretation of the "Fair Use" section
of U.S. copyright law go unresponded-to, because those who act on it may
find themselves very badly hurt. Remember, we are dealing with DISNEY.

"Fair Use" MAY mean that you can make ONE COPY of something which is out of
print, and hand it privately to a colleague for purposes of study. It does
NOT mean you can put it out on the Web for absolutely anybody in the world
to download. It's true that the Web didn't exist when the law was written,
and new interpretations will be called for -- but the very strong trend is
for Web posting to be considered "publication", not "making a copy"; and if
you PUBLISH a complete copyrighted work, you are very definitely violating
the owner's copyright.

Furthermore, last month's comic book is not "out of print" in any meaningful
way. It may very well be that copies are still available from the publisher
(which is what "in print" means) -- in fact, I'll bet quite a few of
Gladstone's comics still are. And even if it does flicker out of print for a
moment, who's to say they don't have a reprint headed for the distributor
even now? Or next month? Or next year? The publisher's ownership of the
material does not evaporate the moment the last copy leaves the warehouse,
nor does its legal ability to control distribution. In any case, a recent
comic book should be easily available to anyone who goes looking and is
willing to pay; and therefore re-publishing it violates the spirit, if not
the absolute narrowest interpretation of the letter of the law.

Picture yourself alone in court, with a hundred Disney lawyers glaring at
you, as are the judge and the jury, and you're saying, "Uh, it was kinda,
well, out of print, y'know, so nobody could get it anymore, and, um..."

Remember, again, who we are dealing with here.

And even STILL furthermore, there's a new U.S. copyright law coming into
effect right about now, and preliminary reports are that "Fair Use" is going
to be a lot harder to justify. Especially when you're dealing with -- well,
the people we're dealing with.

A good rule of thumb about copyrights is that anything, absolutely anything
at all, is protected by copyright if the person claiming it has a lawyer;
and nothing, absolutely nothing at all, is protected by copyright if the
person claiming it doesn't have a lawyer. And if there's one thing Disney
has, it's lawyers.

As to the "Robin Hood" question -- i.e., does Disney have a MORAL right to
its property? I'm not going to get into that, because I haven't fully
thought it through, and probably won't live long enough to fully think it
through. My gut reaction says corporations are not human beings and
therefore don't have the rights of human beings; on the other hand, saying
an entity doesn't have "moral" rights to what it owns looks an awful lot
like the top of a slippery slope, and I'm an owner of intellectual property
myself.

Anybody who wants to post Disney comics on the Web does so at his own risk.
Period. We can argue among ourselves till the cows come home about whether
or not it's okay to do so, but they're the ones you'd have to convince, and
they are notoriously difficult to convince on this point.

Your best bet is to hope they don't catch you. And all I can say with
absolute certainty is that I won't be the one to blow the whistle on you.

Quack, Don

Quack, Don

Read The Daily QuackT Monday thru Saturday:
http://www.back.to/quack





From acsive at yahoo.com  Sun Oct 15 16:59:45 2000
From: acsive at yahoo.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?Anders=20Christian=20Sivebaek?=)
Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 07:59:45 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: 287
Message-ID: <20001015145945.4093.qmail@web1801.mail.yahoo.com>

 
 

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Messenger - Talk while you surf!  It's FREE.
http://im.yahoo.com/



From acsive at yahoo.com  Sun Oct 15 17:06:44 2000
From: acsive at yahoo.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?Anders=20Christian=20Sivebaek?=)
Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 08:06:44 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: 287
Message-ID: <20001015150644.14081.qmail@web1802.mail.yahoo.com>

Hi
I'm a duckhunter. 
I'm one of those who has scanned stories, again like
everyone else who does so, not for personal profit,
but for the good of fans. 
We published the coin last year at Christmas on
duckhunt... So did we take any money from Picsou doing
that? I don't really think so... The issue may have
been sold out at the time we put the story online. 
What happened when we put it online that i got many
thank you's and questions about certain pages that
they couldn't download because I'm a yerk at
uploading. 
Some nice people, including the author himself warned
us about Disney but nothing happened, and nothing has
happened yet. 
Also we scanned this year the story Attaaaaaack, and
put it online. This time we got a nice warning from a
duckhunt-reader who advised us to take the scans away
from the main-page where we linked to them, so we did.
Now, they're just another place, and one of us carries
somehow the repsonsibility. 
Our philosophy about putting those two stories online
has been to show them to american and european readers
who didn't read english, and it still is. Now the
story is published in France, Finland and Holland, so
the people from these countries wont have to look at
our page, cause they wont find Don's dialogue there...
only one that I amaturistic translated from french...
with help from nice people. 
The case is the same with the Attaaaaaack-story. 
Still, the story hasn't been published anywhere else
than those places, and we hvae it there for that
reason. I wonder if we should move it when (hopefully)
Egmont publishes the story in the 3 scandinavian
weeklies. Some american fans still might not have seen
the story. 
If our publishing of those stories has helped some
people to discover the talent of Don Rosa, we
fullfilled the purpouse by putting them online. 

One thing. I think it was my friend Apostolis or
someone else who has the finnish scans of the
Kalevala-story online... That's funny... Now, of
course we heard that AA has 1,1 million readers, but
they probably have the book... all other nationalities
might not be that strong in finnish... But then they
can do as I did before I learned reading (via the
dansih weekly), read the pictures. The original
dialogue is only known by the publishers and Don
himself, I should think... 

Sorry for sending the whole oldlist in connection with
this mail, I'm thinking about forgiving myself
sometime tomorrow.

BTW If I disappear from the list someday you may
expect that some MIB from Di$ney hunted all the
duckhunters down... as though we were ducks in the
hunting season. 

AC



=====
Anders Christian Sivebaek
acsive at yahoo.com

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Messenger - Talk while you surf!  It's FREE.
http://im.yahoo.com/



From komix43 at hotmail.com  Sun Oct 15 17:45:18 2000
From: komix43 at hotmail.com (Apostolis Trikourakis)
Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 18:45:18 +0300
Subject: 287? Anyway...
Message-ID: <OE43tWTXs8Sp58gowhI000022e7@hotmail.com>

Anders Christian Sivebaek wrote:

>>>One thing. I think it was my friend Apostolis or
>>>someone else who has the finnish scans of the
>>>Kalevala-story online... That's funny...

Thanks Anders. Actually, we must thanks Thomas Lauritsen who scanned the
story for me. The "Quest for Kalevala" story is unfortunatelly unpublished
in Greece and in many other countries. So, I uploaded the scans, the cover
from Anku Ankka and a new page (the 34th) in my page. Unfortunatelly, the
story is in Finnish.
Best Wishes

Apostolis Trikourakis, Athens
E-mail: komix43 at hotmail.com & komix at compulink.gr
Web Site: http://www.geocities.com/komixgreekpage
DCML member




From fernandopventura at uol.com.br  Sun Oct 15 17:55:40 2000
From: fernandopventura at uol.com.br (Fernando Ventura)
Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 13:55:40 -0200
Subject: Kalevala's Brazilian cover and 2000 Abril
Message-ID: <003a01c036c0$5f1b0180$bcffbfc8@v2h5i1>

Hi!
if someone is intrested i see the brazilian cover of Kalevala take a look
at:

http://www.uol.com.br/abriljovem/disney/outubro00/lancamentos.htm

That's it! Ah, there are any brazilian Disney comic published in any other
country THIS year? Abril produced a lot off Z? Carioca, Donald Duck and
Mickey Mouse comics this year and I like to know if any of then is exported!
Maybe Italy?

Many thanks,
Fernando!




From komix43 at hotmail.com  Sun Oct 15 19:39:19 2000
From: komix43 at hotmail.com (Apostolis Trikourakis)
Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 20:39:19 +0300
Subject: DCML scetch!
Message-ID: <OE16sskpHEbgkJqzBSc00001486@hotmail.com>

Dear DCML members

I put a nice scan at:
http://www.geocities.com/komixgreekpage/keepdcmlstrong.htm Its a nice scetch
with Donald from me dedicated to all DCML members! :-))))
Best Wishes

Apostolis Trikourakis, Athens
E-mail: komix43 at hotmail.com & komix at compulink.gr
Web Site: http://www.geocities.com/komixgreekpage
DCML member




From reimersholme at hotmail.com  Sun Oct 15 22:54:31 2000
From: reimersholme at hotmail.com (Stefan Persson)
Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 22:54:31 +0200
Subject: Kalevala's Brazilian cover and 2000 Abril
References: <003a01c036c0$5f1b0180$bcffbfc8@v2h5i1>
Message-ID: <OE2382gv5Gmz8Phg8VM00000b41@hotmail.com>

----- Original Message -----
From: "Fernando Ventura" <fernandopventura at uol.com.br>
To: <dcml at stp.ling.uu.se>
Sent: Sunday, October 15, 2000 5:55 PM
Subject: Kalevala's Brazilian cover and 2000 Abril


>That's it! Ah, there are any brazilian Disney comic published in any other
country THIS year?

B 820273 (Djungelankan och eldens herre!) was published in Kalle Ankas
Pocket 246 (June 2000).




From kalas.puff at falkenberg.mail.telia.com  Mon Oct 16 16:56:09 2000
From: kalas.puff at falkenberg.mail.telia.com (Joakim Gunnarsson)
Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 16:56:09 +0200
Subject: Ducks on the net
References: <200010161000.MAA27492@numerus.ling.uu.se>
Message-ID: <001001c03781$3a6859c0$cfc2c6c3@default>

Anders Christian Sivebaek wrote:
> Also we scanned this year the story Attaaaaaack, and
> put it online. 

That story will be published in Scandinavia in one of the last issues of the weeklies this year.
Having full stories on-line prior its publication is nothing Disney or the publishers like... *and* it's a violation of copyright laws of course.

I can *understand* why people put  "banned" stories, rare artwork and sketches etc.on-line (Even if it's a copyright crime) because they are really hard to find even for the hardcore collector/fan... but with new stories???

I see no point in it! 
You just have to wait for it (Like in the old pre-internet days) or go hunt for a foreign copy of the book. 

/Joakim Gunnarsson,
  Malmo, Sweden




From jgarvin at bendcable.com  Mon Oct 16 18:06:28 2000
From: jgarvin at bendcable.com (john garvin)
Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 09:06:28 -0700
Subject: internet revolution
References: <200010161000.MAA27484@numerus.ling.uu.se>
Message-ID: <39EB2784.F420779@bendcable.com>

I agree with almost everything Mr. Markstein said.  Disney does have a lot of
lawyers.  But you know what? It doesn't have enough lawyers to go after
everybody who violates their copyright on the internet, not by a longshot..

Copyright law, in my opinion, will become obsolete in the next ten years.  Years
ago there was a guy who published an x-rated paradoy of Mickey Mouse (I'm sure
someone on this list has the name...Dan something-or-other).  Disney sued him
and the guy had to stop.  But he was pretty easy to find and it was pretty easy
to shut him down.  He had to go through established printing, distribution, and
retail channels.  If I scan that same story now and post it to usenet, there
isn't a thing Disney can do.

The internet represents instant access, with full color and sound, to millions
and millions of people.  As more people go online and begin to share
information, much of it copyrighted I'm sure, there will be an initial attempt
to stop the flood, but it's not going to work.  All laws, and I mean ALL laws,
rely on one simple tenant: enforceability.  Sure Disney has a lot of lawyers,
but do they have time to after hundreds, even thousands, of internet copyright
viloations here in the States?  To complicate matters, the internet is truly
global and almost all copyright law is enforced on a country by country basis,
depending on which countries subscribe to international copyright law.  US
Disney lawyers can't do anything to internet pages created and maintained
outside this country.  Imagine the jurisdictional mess they would have if they
tried to shut down pages originating in Brazil, Latvia, or North Korea.

Do I think this is a good thing?  Frankly, yes.  I too am an owner of
intelectual property.  (And, by the way, know first hand what it is like to lose
money because of the internet.  I make video games (Syphonfilter 1 and 2 were my
last hits) and one of the first things the internet was used for was pirating
software!)  I think that creators should be able to profit from their work, up
to a point.  US copyright law sets that point to be around 60 years, give or
take.  Disney, and other major copyright holders, are trying to change current
copyright law so that they hold the copyright forever.  Here's my question:
what if Bram Stoker's family had been able to form a corporation and copyright
Dracula and all the familiar things in the formulaic vampire story?  And what if
they enforced their copyright so that no other vampire story had ever been
written?  No Dracula films, comics, books.  Would horror literature be richer or
poorer without Anne Rice's take on the material?  Stephen King's?

This is actually an ironic question, because the Disney machine spent most of
its creative life (at least in the feature films) plundering the public domain.
Whether or not you agree with Disney's take on Lewis Carrol, I think the world
would be the poorer if Disney had been prohibited by copyright to make its
version of Alice In Wonderland.  Imagine a world where these characters and
fictional worlds belong to everyone and if Disney want's to make money on Uncle
Scrooge it has to compete in a free marketplace with anyone who wants to write
an Uncle Scrooge story.  Don Rosa may be willing to sell his work to Egmont,
giving it to the Disney Corporation for use all over the world for free, but I
can tell that not many other creators are as generous.  Imagine a world where
you go online, seek out your favorite writer and artist, go to their site, and
pay to download a new story directly from them.  A Don Rosa story unhampered by
editors who tell him that readers "don't want this kind of story."  Imagine if
Steve Gerber could write Howard the Duck stories?  The possiblities are
endless.  So is the internet.  An information  revolution is coming, don't let
anyone tell you otherwise.









From pekka.malmstrom at uppsala.mail.telia.com  Tue Oct 17 00:45:48 2000
From: pekka.malmstrom at uppsala.mail.telia.com (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Per-Erik_Malmstr=F6m?=)
Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 00:45:48 +0200
Subject: internet revolution
References: <200010161000.MAA27484@numerus.ling.uu.se> <39EB2784.F420779@bendcable.com>
Message-ID: <001a01c037c5$f30a5700$4c1b40d5@a00100353>

John Garvin:
> Sure Disney has a lot of lawyers,
> but do they have time to after hundreds, even thousands, of internet copyright
> viloations here in the States?  

The answer is most likely "No", but does that justify breaking the law? The copyright laws were created for a good reason, and I believe that reason is just as valid today as it was ten years ago. Why shouldn't it be?
    I wholeheartedly share Joakim Gunnarsson's opinion that only rare material belong on the Internet. New stories can be bought over desk.

>Years ago there was a guy who published an x-rated paradoy of Mickey Mouse (I'm sure
> someone on this list has the name...Dan something-or-other).  

The guy who did the "obscene" MM-story (Air Pirate Funnies) is named Dan O'Neill. Don't know anything about him except he showed me Mickey & Minnie in the nude, and I still haven't recovered!

Quacks from Sweden,
/Per-Erik






From pati at iki.fi  Tue Oct 17 08:10:06 2000
From: pati at iki.fi (Pekka Timonen)
Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 09:10:06 +0300
Subject: internet revolution
References: <200010161000.MAA27484@numerus.ling.uu.se> <39EB2784.F420779@bendcable.com>
Message-ID: <002101c03800$e60952a0$5c0e6a0a@arenanet.fi>

John Garvin wrote:
> Imagine a world where
> you go online, seek out your favorite writer and artist, go to their site,
and
> pay to download a new story directly from them.  A Don Rosa story
unhampered by
> editors who tell him that readers "don't want this kind of story."
Imagine if
> Steve Gerber could write Howard the Duck stories?  The possiblities are
> endless.  So is the internet.  An information  revolution is coming, don't
let
> anyone tell you otherwise.
>
I see a world where you don't have to go to the site of your favorite
writer and artist, and pay to download a new story directly from them,
because a fan site meaning well, but not really thinking, has already that
story, and you can download it for free from there.

Having no copyright law would mean no income for people who earn it.

--
Pekka Timonen (pati at iki.fi)





From marcobar at ds.unifi.it  Tue Oct 17 10:41:19 2000
From: marcobar at ds.unifi.it (Marco Barlotti)
Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 10:41:19 +0200
Subject: Mickey in Hong Kong
In-Reply-To: <200010141000.MAA04584@numerus.ling.uu.se>
Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20001017104119.00965d80@ds.unifi.it>

Gianfranco Goria sent me some scans from the Hong Kong edition of the
Mickey Mouse comic.
I think he won't mind if I share them with all of you:

http://marcobar.cce.unifi.it/DCML/HK1.jpg

is the cover, while two pages are

http://marcobar.cce.unifi.it/DCML/HK2.jpg
http://marcobar.cce.unifi.it/DCML/HK3.jpg

Note (in the last one) the "Fantastic Four" style of Mickey's attitude...
we Italians would think maybe of "Tiramolla"   ;-)


    Marco


http://marcobar.cce.unifi.it/Comics







From marcobar at ds.unifi.it  Tue Oct 17 10:45:26 2000
From: marcobar at ds.unifi.it (Marco Barlotti)
Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 10:45:26 +0200
Subject: major FSB improvement: Disney MEGAzine index
Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20001017104526.009687e0@ds.unifi.it>

Thanks to Ugo Dell'Arciprete, a member of this list, who did most of the
work, to myself and to Eta Beta, a *complete* index of the Italian stories
(one-page gags) that appeared in "Disney MEGAzine" is now on-line at

http://marcobar.cce.unifi.it/DisneyIndex/MEGAzine.html

We hope to have soon also an ISSUE index to be included in INDUCKS.

     Marco


http://marcobar.cce.unifi.it/DisneyIndex






From marcobar at ds.unifi.it  Tue Oct 17 10:48:27 2000
From: marcobar at ds.unifi.it (Marco Barlotti)
Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 10:48:27 +0200
Subject: update in the index of the Italian reprints of Barks' Disney
  stories
Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20001017104827.0096ce40@ds.unifi.it>

The index of the Italian reprints of Barks' stories has been updated on
http://marcobar.cce.unifi.it/fumetti/IndiceBarks.html

There is also an English page for this, but it points to the same index
(which is in Italian!):
http://marcobar.cce.unifi.it/comics/BarksIndex.html

     Marco


http://marcobar.cce.unifi.it






From sgarcia at uf-isf.es  Tue Oct 17 10:59:58 2000
From: sgarcia at uf-isf.es (Santiago Garcia Banhos)
Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 10:59:58 +0200
Subject: USA and Copyrights
In-Reply-To: <200010161000.MAA27494@numerus.ling.uu.se>
Message-ID: <001b01c03818$a00fe260$34446f0a@ufisf.es>

Donald Markstein, Rodney Bowcock, Kriton Kyrimis, etc:

You have talked about USA Copyright Laws, but what about International
copyright laws? I realise American stuff is protected by American laws, but
in which way EXACTLY is concerned (for instance) Don Rosa's stories by USA
laws, for he produces for a swedish publisher?

Someone to answer, please?

Santiago.




From HJC.Kunne at net.HCC.nl  Tue Oct 17 21:19:13 2000
From: HJC.Kunne at net.HCC.nl (Henri Kunne)
Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 21:19:13 +0200
Subject: internet revolution
In-Reply-To: <200010171000.MAA32681@numerus.ling.uu.se>
Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20001017205924.00a96e00@pop5.inter.nl.net>

Per Erik Malmstr?m,
(hope I got that one right; my email program made a mess of it!)
at 12:00 17-10-00 +0200, you wrote:

>John Garvin:
> > Sure Disney has a lot of lawyers,
> > but do they have time to after hundreds, even thousands, of internet 
> copyright
> > viloations here in the States?
>
>The answer is most likely "No", but does that justify breaking the law? 
>The copyright laws
>were created for a good reason, and I believe that reason is just as valid 
>today as it was ten
>years ago. Why shouldn't it be?
>     I wholeheartedly share Joakim Gunnarsson's opinion that only rare 
> material belong on the
>Internet. New stories can be bought over desk.

Per, you may be talking about laws and moral idealism, but John is talking 
about facts and human nature.
I, too, am convinced that Disney and all the others of his kind are 
fighting a lost battle - even if I'm not as
'optimstic' about time as he is; I'm afraid the struggle is going to take 
many decades.

>The guy who did the "obscene" MM-story (Air Pirate Funnies) is named Dan 
>O'Neill. Don't know anything
>about him, except he showed me Mickey & Minnie in the nude, and I still 
>haven't recovered!

Oh, you haven't....? Now, please don't make a fool out of yourself! 
Nobody's ever going to complain
about Donald, or one of his gang, in the nude, or Pluto, or even Goofy in 
the very old days. So what's
wrong with Mickey? I strongly dissuade you to read one of the oldest issues 
of the Italian Topolino; in
those days, Italia allowed naked Mickeys. (I know of issues 145-146; a 
Scarpa story, btw.)
         What about the bootleg story, this is the first time I see it 
mentioned on this list. Years ago, I
read about it on a site containing the Usenet archive. (Something like 
www.deja.com or www.dejavu.com,
I don't remember it exactly, even couldn't say if it's still online.) Only 
one posting is about the story,
so either is has never been answered at all, or somebody sent an answer by 
private mail. Anybody
on this list got more information?
         Greetings, Henri




From rodney-selfhelpbikeco at juno.com  Wed Oct 18 00:17:46 2000
From: rodney-selfhelpbikeco at juno.com (Rodney w bowcock jr.)
Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 18:17:46 -0400
Subject: DCML digest, Vol 1 #291 - 9 msgs
Message-ID: <20001017.183007.-11867.0.rodney-selfhelpbikeco@juno.com>

I'm not certain, but I think that because Don Rosa's stories are done
using Disney characters, no matter where they are published they are
bound by copyright laws that affect Disney property in whatever country
that may happen to be.

Regardless of the situation on copyright issues, it's something I
wouldn't want my name attatched to.  I don't think I'm being paranoid
when I question whether or not there may be Disney lawyers lurking on
this list.  There are many lurkers you know, and many other people who
don't use their full names on this list.  It's possible.

Rodney Bowcock (who is desperatly searching for a copy of The Golden Age
of Comedy film.)


________________________________________________________________
YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET!
Juno now offers FREE Internet Access!
Try it today - there's no risk!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.



From Thomas.Krause.GM at GMX.de  Sun Oct 15 09:26:55 2000
From: Thomas.Krause.GM at GMX.de (Thomas Krause)
Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 09:26:55 +0200
Subject: Deutsche Mailingliste
Message-ID: <LOBBLKMGMFKGGDBPDMBJCENICGAA.Thomas.Krause.GM@GMX.de>

Hi LTBs, Disney oder Carl Barks Fans,
 
Wenn ihr Lust auf eine Deutsche Mailingliste habt schreibt mir ein Mail.
 
The LTB-Fansite Master:
Thomas Krause
 
E-Mail: Thomas.Krause at Firemail.de <mailto:Thomas.Krause at Firemail.de> 
oder: T at Krause.as <mailto:T at Krause.as> 
Homepage: http://home.t-online/home/l-k.krause.gm/LTB
oder: http://www.zap.to/Ltb
 
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From klepola at cc.hut.fi  Tue Oct 17 15:57:13 2000
From: klepola at cc.hut.fi (Kari Olavi Lepola)
Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 16:57:13 +0300 (EET DST)
Subject: Copyright
In-Reply-To: <200010171000.MAA32687@numerus.ling.uu.se>
Message-ID: <Pine.GHP.4.10.10010171425160.28509-100000@tiikki.hut.fi>

There has been so much talk about copyrightlaws etc and
now I think I have to tell my opinion.

Copyrightlaw will not become obsolete nor will it be removed.
Think how really basic thing it is that you have the right to
own your intellectual work. It is in some sort of relation even
with patents and such. Creating anything takes finacial investment,
even time you spend as a hobby can be considered worth something.
You absolytely must be able to protect your property and get the
money yourself from your work. I wouldn't work and then let somebody 
else take all the money away from me, 
even if they didn't keep any of the money themselves. It would
still be away from me and my dinner table. (I don't mean charity and
voluntary work and such. I mean working professionally)
So if intellectual work isn't protected people will stop doing it. 

Companies (even big ones) must be treated equally to humans.
If I work and create as an individual human beeing, everybody probably
say that I have right to "fruits of my work", then if I start a small
oneman company and do the same work and then the company grows to three,
ten, hundred, thousand workers company, when would my right to my property
end? If I buy shares of huge company I own a part of all it's property,
when would it seize to be my property and become general property?

Somebody gave the idea that Disney shouldn't have MORAL right to
its stories, because they dont' print them in the US or pay
artists only once etc. What has that to do with this? Would
there be different rights according to how nice and good you were and
how many people liked you or not? Law in the end really isn't about
moral it is about facts, why? Because there is no king Solomon,
you cannot draw lines based on character and feelings. You have to
stick to the book and treat everybody the same, even if it in
some conditions seems wrong, because in the other way the ground
in a real swamp and you will sink into it really, really fast.

About the possibility to legislate and enforce laws over the Internet.
Yes, at the moment you can use servers in other countries and work
around laws that way. But I do believe that things like copyright
and such will be legislated at least between western countries, when
the need to do so really arrises. And all the "other" countries will
probably be inclined to join these sort of agreements, baucause it
will probably be in their interest to do so. It's nice be close friends
with other countries and to do serious business with them, it is
at least more profitable. And the really wague third world contries?
If they don't allow their own people to get everywhere to the net,
why would they risk westeners to get into their contry to freely
post all sorts of stuff there? And even still we do live in our
own countries. Maybe they make it illegal for citizens to brake the
law in their own country by doing it from abroad. For example
I would live in US and send something to France to be posted back
to the US. 

And even now (at least between most contries) copyright law works. 
So for example Disney could probably sue somebody in Brazil.
They just have to start the court process there. And moving the pages to
another country wouldn't help because the question would be of a copyright
violation already done in Brazil. Most countries do already have
copyright laws that are similar. And once you have copyright somewhere
then you have it in the other countries with the laws also.

Then the amount thing. You can't catch all if there is enought people
to catch? Well it is basically right, but what if I catch say ten
and sue them with as much as I can and make sure that there is enough
publicity. The others might become woried that I might do the same to some
of them also. How is it, do they feel lucky? They might consider stopping
what ever they are doing that is illegal.

About public domain. When Bram Stoker wrote his story, he used the old
stories, and legend and the idea of vampires, He didn't create vampires,
he didnt' even create Dracula, but used the story of Vlad Tepes (I'm
not sure how is should be spelled) the monarc who actually lived. But
still he had/(has) the right to his text, the words in the order which
he used them, but not rights to  vampires. Like the story of Pocahontas,
Disney made a film about that. They have rights to that film, so that
nobody can make a copy of it and show it for money for other people.
But anyboydy can make their own film about Pocahontas and Disney can't
say anything about that. That's the point, the idea is public domain,
but not the work itself. I wouldn't call using the public domain
plundering, but using something which is copyrighted by somebody else
(like a character etc) is. 

Information revolution is indeed coming, and things like buying a story
directly from it's creator is a good thing. But there we aren't braking
copyright law, we are just doing normal business.
And if Don Rosa or any other artist sell his stories to Disney and
get paid once for all rights the matter is between them and nobody else.
Hopefully he gets the amount he thinks the story is worth, considering
that he sell all rights, also the right to print it as many times and
in as many contries as Disney likes. After that it's legally Disneys
property and I think that their rights should be honoured. 
We should remember that copyright isn't just about ducks, and comics
and this one company, it's a lot bigger issue.

Anyway I think that that is defenedly enough rambling from me :)

Kari.Lepola at hut.fi





From reynaud at inwind.it  Wed Oct 18 13:12:39 2000
From: reynaud at inwind.it (Pietro Reynaud-Bersanino)
Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 13:12:39
Subject: Copyright & Copywrong!
In-Reply-To: <200010181000.MAA20398@numerus.ling.uu.se>
Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20001018131239.3d1fd662@popmail.inwind.it>

At Tue, 17 Oct 2000 16:57:13 +0300 (EET DST), Kari Olavi Lepola wrote:


>Copyrightlaw will not become obsolete nor will it be removed.
>Think how really basic thing it is that you have the right to
>own your intellectual work. 

>So if intellectual work isn't protected people will stop doing it. 
>
>Companies (even big ones) must be treated equally to humans.

>Like the story of Pocahontas,Disney made a film about that. They have
rights to >that film, so that 
>nobody can make a copy of it and show it for money for other people.
>But anyboydy can make their own film about Pocahontas and Disney can't
>say anything about that. 

I do not understand who pays the American Native (who invented the story
and the character) intellectual work ... the same for SnowWhite, did Disney
payed to all the descend of people who invented the fairy-tale. Did have
Fedro the copyright on Talking Animals? ... Maybe you know that Tony Twist,
an american ice-hokey player asked Todd McFarlane $24.5 million because he
use in his comics a villain called Antony Twistelli in his comic Spawn ...
not a charachter with the same face, just a similar name (and he won the
issue) ... what should European Granny ask to Disney to use Snowhite, what
should Grece government ask Disney to use Talking Animals, a biggest
invention that a crippled name!!?? 

>That's the point, the idea is public domain,
>but not the work itself. 

Who decide that an idea is pubblic domain. Take the Chemist Corporation who
go in the Rain Forest asking ancient medicine men about plants and do not
pay nothing for the idea af a medicine man who decided to use that plant to
cure an illness and and then put a copyright to protect "their own larceny". 
Having and idea is not an intellectual work? Intellectual work is just
manipolating some one else ideas?

The most part of human beeing do not know what a copyright law is but they
continue to have ideas, and  to produce intellectual work!

Then as Thomas Jefferson said, "one man's knowledge does never diminish
another's" - [and all intellectual property], "violates the efficiency rule
[of economics]: that price should equal marginal cost of reproduction, wich
for knowledge is nearly zero"

In fact Disney respect the efficiency rule and do not publish any disney
comics in USA.

IMH, we can discuss about the opportunity or the ethicity to put copyrigted
disney comics on the web but we cannot considering copyright law as a
divine law, a Tabu. Copyright is a law, with no more then 200 years, IMH,
it helped market society (capitalism in other words) to grow up, but now
the marketplace is mature a can defend himself in differents and more
efficient ways. Slavery decade almost all over the world, dead penalty
decaded all over Europe, VAT is decading in e-commerce, and copyright law
is going to decade in short time ...

Ciao da Pietro



From pekka.malmstrom at uppsala.mail.telia.com  Wed Oct 18 14:58:17 2000
From: pekka.malmstrom at uppsala.mail.telia.com (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Per-Erik_Malmstr=F6m?=)
Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 14:58:17 +0200
Subject: internet revolution/Copyright & Copywrong!
References: <3.0.6.16.20001018131239.3d1fd662@popmail.inwind.it>
Message-ID: <000e01c03903$35902c60$db1c40d5@a00100353>

Henri Kunne wrote
> Per, you may be talking about laws and moral idealism, but John is talking 
> about facts and human nature.

Huh? I don't see what you mean. I asked if it's ok to break the law just because it's possible. Are you saying it's in the human nature to do so? Are you saying that I'm inhuman?:-)
    Oh, er, the naked-mice part... I don't remember writing that.
You must have quoted someone else. (You almost got my name right though, except for a silly little hyphen.)

Pietro Reynaud-Bersanino wrote:
> Slavery decade almost all over the world, dead penalty
> decaded all over Europe, VAT is decading in e-commerce, and copyright law
> is going to decade in short time ...

I don't think that's a good comparison - especially since its contradictory. The only thing slavery, death penalty and copyright laws have in common, as far as I can see, is theft. And in one case you are against it, in another you encourage it, even want to see it lagalized?

Best Wishes
/Per-Erik

"The wireless telegraph is not difficult to understand. 
 The ordinary telegraph is like a very long cat. You pull 
 the tail in New York, and it meows in Los Angeles. The 
 wireless is the same, only without the cat." 
                                                 -Albert Einstein




From robert662 at caramail.com  Wed Oct 18 16:15:50 2000
From: robert662 at caramail.com (Antonio Svevi)
Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 16:15:50 +0200
Subject: Copyrigths
Message-ID: <971882013000404@caramail.com>

In all European comics I know of, authors get paid
every time one of their stories is reprinted, in any 
country. Dargaud, Casterman and other comic editors always 
had such policy.
I don't know about US laws, but in France there are 
different kinds of "copyrigths"
- droit d'auteur (author-rigths)
 When original artwork is sold
 in an auction, for instance, a 3 % fee should be
 given to the author
 This law was made to give fees to authors
 and not only people speculating on paintings etc.
- droit de reproduction (copy-rigths)
- droit d'emission & others

Some of these rigths are incessible, like the author rigth, 
meaning that only the authors or the family of the author 
own them. They can not be sold to any party.

I am sorry but in Europe (at least France) when an author 
make an original piece of work, even with Disney character, 
this comic can not be the sole and only property of Disney 
(even if Disney claims so. But they do not make the laws 
- there's a parliament for that!). No company or person can 
legally buy "incessible" rigths.

I will not add anything on this, but I guess you know what I 
think.
______________________________________________________
Bo?te aux lettres - Caramail - http://www.caramail.com


From frspreaf at tin.it  Wed Oct 18 16:32:38 2000
From: frspreaf at tin.it (Francesco Spreafico)
Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 16:32:38 +0200
Subject: Copyrigths
References: <971882013000404@caramail.com>
Message-ID: <041001c03910$5fe3d2c0$27011797@maul>

From: "Antonio Svevi" <robert662 at caramail.com>

>In all European comics I know of, authors get paid
>every time one of their stories is reprinted, in any 
>country.

Not in Italy and not by Disney Italia as long as I think to remember.
--
Sprea





From pmelo at fe.uc.pt  Wed Oct 18 17:25:07 2000
From: pmelo at fe.uc.pt (Paulo Melo)
Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 16:25:07 +0100 (WEST)
Subject: 2000 Abril stories in Europe
In-Reply-To: <OE2382gv5Gmz8Phg8VM00000b41@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.10.10010181604480.924-100000@pc30.inescc.pt>

Hi all. 

Probably the European country that prints more stories produced
in Brazil is Portugal. To answer the request of Arthur Faria Jr. (Artur,
obrigado pelas historias do Pena Kid) and also to describe to the readers
of this list what kind of stories Brazil is exporting nowadays, I made a
list of the Brazilian stories published this year in the Disney magazine I
subscribe to: HiperDisney

HiperDisney is a (more or less) monthly Portuguese magazine, featuring 260
pages (short "Brazilian" sized) of usually "older" Disney comics, some
"Disney news" and short articles, reader's comments and games (still, the
core of the magazine are the comics which can occupy up to 230 of those
pages).  The criteria for "older" however is very elastic, mainly
concerning stories that haven't been published in Portugal recently (those
are considered "newer" stories, even if originally from the early 80s or
even before that).

It's published by Abril/Controljornal (an Abril associate that is the
Disney publisher in Portugal) and as such many of the comics presented are
from Brazil, but also featured are many Italian and Egmont D-coded
stories.

On occasion "older" one-pagers from America, and other countries
production (some S-Coded and H-coded stories) are also featured.
Some "topical" Disney movie stories have also appeared (with
characters from the Hunchback, Pocahontas and even Tarzan - these aren't
coded but I wouldn't be surprised if some were drawn in Brazil).

Unfortunately, the selection does seem to be most random, with very good
stories alternating with some so-so (sometimes it seems like the editors
look at a couple Brazilian magazines and try to fit them in a volume). In
recent years some "uncoded" stories also appeared, which look like was due
to a lack of interest on the codes rather than an actual attempt to
suppress them (no story codes are added here, the ones presented come from
the originals). As far as I've seen, no Portuguese production of Disney
comics has ever taken place, but the text is usually adapted from the
Brazilian Portuguese to the European variant. 

The English translations presented here were done by me, and as such are
not "canonical", and I would welcome any corrections and additions to the
list. Also, in some stories, the lead character is not mentioned in the
title, but I added it preceded by an *. Some stories are also commented,
although very shortly.




Brazilian stories published at HiperDisney in the year 2000 (note -I still
haven't got Vol. 12 No. 2, and No. 11 and 12 are yet to be published. I'll
try adding to it when I get them):

HiperDisney Vol. 12 No 1
B970178 - (Z? Carioca) - Arm?rio X - Os cobradores est?o l? fora
[(Joe Carioca) -The X-File - The collectors are out there...] 13 pages
B970138 - (Z? Carioca) - Brincando de Casinha	[(Joe Carioca) Playing
"house"] 7 pages
B810098 - (Prof. Pardal, *Lampadinha) - O feiticeiro volta a atacar
[(Gyro Gearloose, *Little Helper) The medicine-man strikes again] 7 pages
- A good, classic Gyro story
B870093 - (Margarida) - Novata, eu?	[(Daisy Duck) Me, a rookie?] 10
pages

HiperDisney Vol. 12 No. 3
B960191 - (Z? Carioca) Disk-desencalhe	[(Joe Carioca) Dial-a-girlfriend]
9 pages 
B970167 - (Z? Carioca) Amigo Cachorro	[(Joe Carioca) A dog of a friend]
1 page 
B970153 - (Foli?o) Surfando na Internet	[(?????) Surfing on the Internet]
5 pages - I Don't know the English name of the character, can anyone help?
(seems an Italian character - member of Peperetta?? Gang)
B970144 - (Z? Carioca) Roupa suja lava-se em casa	[(Joe Carioca) The
washing is done at home] 7 pages 
B810029- (Z? Carioca) Quando a esmola ? muita...	[(Joe Carioca)
When the tip is too big..].7 pages- another "classic" featuring ANACOZECA
- the National Association for Creditors from Joe Carioca
B970149 - (Z? Carioca) A loja no ar	[(Joe Carioca) TV-Shopping] 10
pages

HiperDisney Vol. 12 No. 4
B890133 - (Urtig?o) O Causo da V?ia Torta	[(Moe) The case of the
crooked lady] 9 pages - a great story with a strong "hillbilly" flavor 
B890099 - (Urtig?o) Macacadas caipiras	[(Moe) Monkeing around in the
country] 6 pages
B960166 - (Morcego Verde) Cad? a bola	[(Green Bat) Where is the ball?] 8
pages - the Green Bat is the "super"-hero alter-ego of Joe Carioca 
B870134 - (Margarida) Um banho hist?rico	[(Daisy Duck) An
historical bath] 10 pages
B890092 - (Urtig?o) O livr?o	[(Moe) The (big) book] 6 pages
B880134 - (Maga Patal?gika) A velhinha da hora 	[(Magica de Spell) The old
lady of the hour] 7 pages - featuring Magica's apprentice nephew,
Peralta, which I only found on Brazilian stories so far ... Is it a
"Brazilian" character?
B890126 - (Urtig?o) Chega de burrada	[(Moe) Enough donkeys, already!] 5
pages 

HiperDisney Vol. 12 No. 5
B890087 -(Urtig?o) Meu docinho de Ab?bora	[(Moe) My pumpkin sweet] 8
pages - Moe (almost) meets the Phantom Blot and (definitely) meets Madame
Min  
B810071 - (Madame Min) E' aquela ?gua	[(Madam Min) Water!!!] 7
pages

HiperDisney Vol. 12 No. 6
B930012 - (Gansolino) O pergui?oso	[(Gus Gander) The lazy one] 4
pages - an unusual format for a Brazilian story - its an recreational
story, containing several games and puzzles
B890127 - (Urtig?o) Cora??o bobo	[(Moe) Foolish heart] 8 pages
B900051 - (Urtig?o) D?-lhe Urtig?o	[(Moe) Hit-it, Moe] 8 pages

HiperDisney Vol. 12 No. 7
B900115 - (Urtig?o e Madame Min) Asneiras	[(Moe and Min)
Foolishness] 9 pages 

B860125 - (*Donald) Pat?polis na idade da pedra	[(*Donald) Duckburg in the
stone age] 10 pages - first on a series of 7 stories forming a
BIG one (107 pages in total), describing the evolution of Duckburg during
the ages, and the importance of the tic-tac-toe stone on its evolution.  A
MUST READ series. (even if the first two stories, added later, are a
little weaker than the rest IMHO)
B860127 - (*Hor?cio) Embarcando numa galera furada	[(*Horace
Horsecollar) Boarding a sinking galley] 6 pages
B810040 - (*Peninha) Pena Rubra, o Vinking	[(*Fethry) Fethry the Red,
the Viking] 20 pages - the best of the lot, IMHO (but I have a particular
fondness of Fethry, as do many readers of the Brazilian comics)
B810066 - (*Z? Carioca) A invas?o dos piratas	[(*Joe Carioca) The pirate
invasion] 18 pages - also very good
B810003 - (*Mickey e Pateta) Correio a cavalo	[(*Mickey and Goofy) The
pony express] 15 pages - not par with the former, but still good
B810094 - (*Prof Pardal) O s?culo das luzes	[(*Gyro Gearloose) The
century of lights] 20 pages - what can I say... I'm a Gyro fan, so any
good story featuring Gyro is great
B820043 - (*Metralhas) O poderoso Metralh?o	[(*Beagle Boys) Al
Beaglone] 18 pages - A fitting end to a very good series

B900007 - (Urtig?o) O feiti?o da Firmina	[(*Moe) Firmina's spell] 7
pages - I don't believe Firmina (Moe's housekeeper) is featured outside
Brazil, but it is (was?) very much an item on Moe's stories
B970130 - (Z? Carioca) H? genios e g?nios...	[(Joe Carioca)
Geniuses...] 10 pages 

HiperDisney Vol. 12 No. 8
B00007 - (Z? Carioca) O r?ptil devorador	[(Joe Carioca) The
reptile...] 12 pages - first 2000 story from Brazil I read. STRANGE art
(inspired on American (non-Disney) comics and watercolor painting??) .
Well worth a look   
B990051 - (Z? Carioca) Papagaio ou pe?o?	[(Joe Carioca) Parrot or
Cowboy?] 7 pages - I must say I like the art from the new Joe Carioca
stories
B990048 - (Z? Carioca) A caverna m?gica	[(Joe Carioca) The magic cavern] 9
pages
B000059 - (Donald) Um desfile monstruoso	[(Donald) A monstrous
parade] 11 pages - The new art doesn't seem "quite right" on the Ducks,
however  
?????? - (Mickey) Uma festa muito doida	[(Mickey) A very wacky party] 10
pages - No code, but I could swear this is a story from Brazil, from
99/2000 (like the next unnumbered stories on this issue). The new art is
refreshing, but it may be an acquired taste for some. This script is
*really* warped
??????? - (Z? Carioca) O prato do dia	[(Joe Carioca) Today's menu] 8
pages - this one is also from Brazil, in the same time frame - don't know
what happened to the codes (perhaps the pages were cropped? Or did they
send the stories without the codes?)    
??????? - (Z? Carioca) Que intelig?ncia	[(Joe Carioca) Smart... very
smart] 2 pages - like the former
B00057 - (Donald) E para descansar das f?rias?	[(Donald) And to relax
from the holidays?] 10 pages
??????? - (Z? Carioca) O espirito "pascoalicio"	[(Joe Carioca) "Eastery"
spirit] 8 pages
??????? - (Mickey e Minnie) Rom?ntico Canino	[(Mickey and Minnie)
Dogged Romantic] 8 pages 
??????? - (Z? Carioca) Tudo acabado entre n?s!	[(Joe Carioca) It's the
end of the road for us!] 10 pages  
??????? - (Z? Carioca) A misteriosa ?rea 13	[(Joe Carioca) Area 13]
(what else?) 13 pages 
??????? - (Z? Carioca) O pr?mio da lotaria	[(Joe Carioca) The big
lotto] 8 pages 

HiperDisney Vol. 12 No. 9
??????? - (Z? Carioca) Que artista	[(Joe Carioca) What an artist!] 2
pages - "new" art 
??????? - (Z? Carioca) As cartas n?o mentem	[(Joe Carioca) The cards
don't lie!] 9 pages - "new" art, but less extreme (99 style?) 
??????? - (Z? Carioca) Se n?o chover, voc? dan?a	[(Joe Carioca)
Either it rains, or you do the dance] 8 pages  
??????? - (Z? Carioca) Loucura na pista	[(Joe Carioca) Madness on Formula
1] 9 pages  
B990041 - (Z? Carioca) Tudo por amor	[(Joe Carioca) All for love] 8
pages 
B990055 - (*Pedr?o) Pedr?o Madrinho	[(?????) Fairy God-Pedr?o?] 11
pages - Pedr?o is a member of Joe Carioca's gang - one of his best
friends. I don't believe it used outside Brazil. Also, I believe it was
the first Disney regular comics character (drawn at least since the 80s,
probably earlier) that is unmistakably a dark-skinned human.
B990054  - (Z? Carioca) Pegou mal	[(Joe Carioca) Not so candid
camera] 3 pages 
B990043 - (Z? Carioca) O p? frio	[(Joe Carioca) Cold foot] 6 pages
B990052 - (Z? Carioca) Rival fixe	[(Joe Carioca) A cool rival] 8
pages - again Pedr?o is the real lead in this story, this time in his
"super"-hero alter-ego, Capit?o Porreta (this was the first time I read of
his alter-ego, I'm sure its seldom used)

HiperDisney Vol. 12 No. 10
B990039 - (Z? Carioca) Pipocas	[(Joe Carioca) Popcorn] 9 pages - a Green
Bat adventure 
B990031 - (Z? Carioca) Ca?adores de Pulgas	[(Joe Carioca) Flea
Hunters] 6 pages  
B990036 - (Z? Carioca) A verdade est? a saltar	[(Joe Carioca) The truth
is hopping there] 8 pages - another X-files parody that's also the sequel
to the previous story  
B000015 - (Mickey) e o anivers?rio da Minnie	[Mickey) and Minnie's
birthday] 5 pages - in its 2000 stories, the Brasilian artists reverted to
the classic look (red shorts and no shirt) for Mickey   
B890179 - (Urtig?o e Firmina) Tradi??o ? Tradi??o 	[(Moe and Firmina)
Keeping the tradition] 8 pages 
B890128 - (Urtig?o) O causo da mulher grande	[(Moe) The case of the Big
lady] 7 pages 
B990034 - (Z? Carioca) A bicicleta	[(Joe Carioca) The bicycle] 6
pages 
B990028 - (Z? Carioca) Acampamento de F?rias	[(Joe Carioca) Holiday
Camp] 9 pages (Joe's nephews are the true leads of this story)  
??????? - (Z? Carioca) Os lavadeiros	[(Joe Carioca) Washing] 6 pages 
??????? - (Z? Carioca) Mestre do Origami	[(Joe Carioca) Origami
master] 1 page 

Note on the codes: BYYNNNN: story NNNN of the year YY, produced in Brazil.
YY==00 for 2000.





From jgarvin at bendcable.com  Wed Oct 18 17:51:52 2000
From: jgarvin at bendcable.com (john garvin)
Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 08:51:52 -0700
Subject: creators rights, last post
References: <200010181000.MAA20390@numerus.ling.uu.se>
Message-ID: <39EDC718.7D73118B@bendcable.com>

I was going to let this subject drop since all but one or two were not
responding to the central ideas in my posting.  But Kari did, and since he is
so wrong on most points, I can't help it.

"You absolytely must be able to protect your property and get the
money yourself from your work."

 I agree.  If you recall, I said that I personally believe that all living
creators should be respected.

"Companies (even big ones) must be treated equally to humans."

Wow.  No offence, but I could not possibly disagree with this statement more
strongly.  Corporations are NOT people, and though they are attempting to, and
in the US have succeeding in, gaining multiple human rights, they are NOT
people!  The Disney corporation exists for one reason and one reason ONLY: to
make money.  If you believe otherwise, you are kidding yourself.  Like most
other corporations, it has a history of exploiting the labor and talents of
others to improve the bottom line.  It does not care about creating, it does
not care about people, it does not have any loyalty to any country, it does not
think of the people who work for it as family, it cares about profit.  I hope
I'm right when I say that this does not describe most human beings that I
know.  If you buy shares in these inhuman moneymaking machines, you get what
you pay for.

"Somebody gave the idea that Disney shouldn't have MORAL right to
its stories, because they dont' print them in the US or pay
artists only once etc. What has that to do with this? Would
there be different rights according to how nice and good you were and
how many people liked you or not? Law in the end really isn't about
moral it is about facts, why?"

Again, wow.  I can tell I'm not talking to someone in the USA here.  See, we
have a jury system.  What that means is that the Jury not only has the power to
decide the facts of a case, but also the justness of the law itself.  The
famous OJ Simpson trial became, in part, not so much a murder trial, as a trial
of a very corrupt police system.
Don't forget that I keep calling this an information revolution.  Revolution is
all about moral outrage against unjust laws.  Of course we will break the law.
If enough laws are broken by moral people fighting for a just cause, change is
made.  That is how we Americans enacted civil rights in the south.  Again,
don't kid yourself: there are many many bad laws on the books.  In my mind,
laws which protect the rights of living creators are good.  Laws which allow
corporations to steal from creators in perpetuity, are bad.  It is a human
right to break a bad law.  If enough people do it, the laws get swept away.

"About public domain. When Bram Stoker wrote his story, he used the old
stories, and legend and the idea of vampires, He didn't create vampires,
he didnt' even create Dracula, but used the story of Vlad Tepes (I'm
not sure how is should be spelled) the monarc who actually lived."

Uh huh.  And what about Lewis Carrol?  I see that you ignored this example.
Alice in Wonderland was written in the 1865, Through the Looking Glass in 1871,
a little over a hundred years ago.  These works contained characters and
locations straight from the imagination of a single author.  Again I ask you,
would the world of ideas be a better place or worse, if Carrol had been able to
start a Carrol Corporation, and lock down the use of that intellectual property
for the next thousand years?  No Disney Alice In Wonderland animated feature,
no Disney Theme park: Wild Teacup ride, Alice ride, Mad Hatter shop; no Disney
Alice series of books, cups, hats, dolls, shirts, lollypops, and videos.

I think that Lewis Carrol had the right to make money from his characters and
books as long as he was alive.  I would even go so far as to say that his
family could profit from them for another 20 years after his death (this is
current copyright law, give or take.)  I don't think, had Carrol been writing
under a "work for hire" contract, as Barks had to do his entire life, for a
greedy corporation, that that corporation would be entitled to profit from his
work forever.  THAT, is what Disney is fighting for even now.  You're darn
right I want a revolution.





From reimersholme at hotmail.com  Wed Oct 18 17:57:02 2000
From: reimersholme at hotmail.com (Stefan Persson)
Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 17:57:02 +0200
Subject: Deutsche Mailingliste
References: <LOBBLKMGMFKGGDBPDMBJCENICGAA.Thomas.Krause.GM@GMX.de>
Message-ID: <OE46adcb0c1QjI4THq4000012d5@hotmail.com>

Could someone please translate this? I can't understand!
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Thomas Krause 
  To: Englische Mailingliste 
  Sent: Sunday, October 15, 2000 9:26 AM
  Subject: Deutsche Mailingliste


  Hi LTBs, Disney oder Carl Barks Fans,

   

  Wenn ihr Lust auf eine Deutsche Mailingliste habt schreibt mir ein Mail.

   

  The LTB-Fansite Master:

  Thomas Krause

   

  E-Mail: Thomas.Krause at Firemail.de

  oder: T at Krause.as

  Homepage: http://home.t-online/home/l-k.krause.gm/LTB

  oder: http://www.zap.to/Ltb

   

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From ricke at microsoft.com  Wed Oct 18 19:03:10 2000
From: ricke at microsoft.com (Rick Engle)
Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 10:03:10 -0700
Subject: Any news on a US Duck publication returning?
Message-ID: <2A859517F5FA314A9EA38825D1C0B0E32C46CF@red-mbl-01.redmond.corp.microsoft.com>

Has anyone heard anything about Galdstone or Rainbow recovering and having
US Duck titles again?  This is riduculous that Disney is an American company
and yet we can buy titles here in the US.   Everytime I go into my comics
store I get a pang knowing that there are no more duck titles available here
even though they are being churned out elsewhere in the world.
     Thanks,
        Rick



From robert662 at caramail.com  Wed Oct 18 19:38:51 2000
From: robert662 at caramail.com (Antonio Svevi)
Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 19:38:51 +0200
Subject: 289
Message-ID: <971894181023380@caramail.com>

John Garvin:
>I think that Lewis Carrol had the right to make money
>from his characters and books as long as he was alive. 
>I would even go so far as to say that his family
>could profit from them for another 20 years after his
>death (this is current copyright law, give or take.) 
>I don't think, had Carrol been writing under a "work
>for hire" contract, as Barks had to do his entire life,
>for a greedy corporation, that that corporation would
>be entitled to profit from his work forever. THAT, is
>what Disney is fighting for even now. You're darn right
>I want a revolution.

And what I was trying to say in my previous message is that 
this behaviour is not even legal in some places. 

People, associations, companies have been trying to "buy" 
the full copyrigths of some famous painters or artists for 
years. This is not possible in France. Even if the author or 
his family wants to, he can not sell all of its rigths on 
his own works to any party.

Disney on the other hand considers they have full rigths to 
all comics with Donald or Mickey. Of course, how can an 
artist sue Disney or its subsidiaries? What can someone do 
against such a big company? nothing. But that doesn't make 
it legal.
See? The discussion began wether people on the Internet were 
breaking the law. But who really is "breaking" the law?

Francesco:
>>In all European comics I know of, authors get paid
>>every time one of their stories is reprinted, in any 
>>country.
>
>Not in Italy and not by Disney Italia as long as I think
>to remember.

Indeed, and this is the Disney exception I wanted to point 
out.

Asterix, Lagaffe, and countless other non Disney comics are 
owned by their real authors.

______________________________________________________
Bo?te aux lettres - Caramail - http://www.caramail.com


From frspreaf at tin.it  Wed Oct 18 19:44:43 2000
From: frspreaf at tin.it (Francesco Spreafico)
Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 19:44:43 +0200
Subject: 289
References: <971894181023380@caramail.com>
Message-ID: <017201c0392b$3523f5e0$27011797@maul>

From: "Antonio Svevi" <robert662 at caramail.com>

>>Not in Italy and not by Disney Italia as long as I think
>>to remember.

>Indeed, and this is the Disney exception I wanted to point 
>out.

Oops, sorry, I hadn't noticed.

--
Sprea




From HJC.Kunne at net.HCC.nl  Wed Oct 18 20:16:23 2000
From: HJC.Kunne at net.HCC.nl (Henri Kunne)
Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 20:16:23 +0200
Subject: DCML digest, Vol 1 #293 - 7 msgs
In-Reply-To: <200010181605.SAA14547@numerus.ling.uu.se>
Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20001018200605.00a9eef0@pop5.inter.nl.net>

At 18:05 18-10-00 +0200, Per-Erik Malstr?m wrote:

>Henri Kunne wrote:
> > Per, you may be talking about laws and moral idealism, but John is talking
> > about facts and human nature.
>Huh? I don't see what you mean. I asked if it's ok to break the law just 
>because it's possible.
>Are you saying it's in the human nature to do so? Are you saying that I'm 
>inhuman? :-)

Of course not! Not all people are copy thieves, but some are, and the 
Internet's presence makes them
unbeatable, according to me. I really see this is going to have some 
setbacks, but I stay convinced
that art as a whole will profit from this evolution.

>Oh, er, the naked-mice part... I don't remember writing that. You must 
>have quoted someone else.

Did I? Now take a look:

 >The guy who did the "obscene" MM-story (Air Pirate Funnies) is named Dan
 >O'Neill. Don't know anything
 >about him, except he showed me Mickey & Minnie in the nude, and I still
 >haven't recovered!

You didn't retain my quote, so I had to paste it from the previous posting. 
In your original of
Tuesday 17th, it hasn't got any > or | sign or whatever. How can that be, 
it these words
aren't yours?
         Greetings, Henri




From tavosanis at rom.unipi.it  Wed Oct 18 22:10:10 2000
From: tavosanis at rom.unipi.it (Mirko Tavosanis)
Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 22:10:10 +0200
Subject: Disney copyright
In-Reply-To: <200010181605.SAA14547@numerus.ling.uu.se>
Message-ID: <006001c0393f$6af2e500$130e7283@oemcomputer>

Hi,

perhaps it's time to say that I published this year (with Fabio Gadducci) a
little book in Italian about copyright in Disney comics :-)

The title of the book is _Casa Disney: Autori e diritto d'autore_
(PuntoZero, Bologna, 2000; ISBN 88-86945-26-4; 14.000 lire or 7,25 euro).
Obviously, we included in the book also interviews with comics creators like
Don Rosa, Luciano Bottaro and Marco Rota. And it was very interesting to
study the strange forms intellectual property can take :-)

Copyright is not a law of nature, of course. The modern concept of copyright
didn't surface until the Eighteenth century, and writers and creators worked
for the publishing industry well before there was something like a copyright
law. Moreover, today's copyright laws are designed according to the needs of
the publishing industry rather than to the needs of the creators: in the
contries that accepted the Berne Convention and the recent German
extensions, copyright now lasts seventy years after the death of a
creator... and this fact has a real meaning only for a publishing house, not
for a creator.

Of course, no one is entitled to break a law. But perhaps it's time for some
changes. Now we have peer-to-peer technology that, coupled with encryption,
could allow users to post on the Internet every kind of "creative work" for
free and without risk of being caught. Could this technology make it
impossible to charge "users" for reading a text or a comic? Perhaps. But
suerly even this would not stop many creators from creating.

Best wishes,

Mirko Tavosanis

http://www.humnet.unipi.it/rogiolo/profili/mirko.html




From c_seiten at hotmail.com  Wed Oct 18 22:12:47 2000
From: c_seiten at hotmail.com (Claudio Eckert)
Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 22:12:47 CEST
Subject: Don Rosa in Frankfurt
Message-ID: <F12BBVhyemYewQ1N8Pi000085d0@hotmail.com>

Is anyone else going to Frankfurt Book Fair this sunday? (Don Rosa will be 
there from 12 to 2 pm.) I'd like to join other ML-Members who want to go 
there.

Claudio

_________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

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http://profiles.msn.com.




From pyas at swipnet.se  Thu Oct 19 01:53:17 2000
From: pyas at swipnet.se (Stefan =?iso-8859-1?Q?Di=F6s?=)
Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 00:53:17 +0100
Subject: Copyright
In-Reply-To: <200010181605.SAA14556@numerus.ling.uu.se>
Message-ID: <20001018225303.BTSR6128.fep04-svc.swip.net@stefandi>

Many people have already expressed much of my views on this matter, but
still I
feel compelled to contribute. Sorry about the long message. I have
shortened it
considerably.

In recent years, I have been increasingly distraught by some sort of new,
"technological greed" that seems to be popping up everywhere. It's like some
people believe that just because they own a computer, they have a right to get
everything else in the world for free. Obviously, many young (?) people don't
understand what the copyright law is about, or if they do, they somehow decide
they have a supreme right to put themselves above it. Which, of course, is
worse.

On this list, I've been amazed to see people continuously advertising fully
scanned Disney stories for anyone to read or download. An illustrated fan site
is one thing, and should be applauded if it's well maintained, yet I
thought it
should be obvious to anyone that complete stories are way too much. I've been
wondering how they can to this and why somebody doesn't stop them, or even
politely tell them this is a thoughtless thing to do. Did I speak up myself?
No, because I'm lazy (and perhaps cowardly), and because I didn't want to be
the first to rouse a sleeping bear.

And their arguments, now that it's happened? "We don't make a profit from
this." Aha, fine. Tomorrow I'll walk into the jewellers' and take a diamond
bracelet. I'm not gonna sell it, so I'm not making a profit from it. I'm
giving
it to my girlfriend, who wouldn't have bought it otherwise, and the store has
lots of other bracelets anyway, so nobody loses anything. Yes, this situation
is different, but the argument is the same. And how about this: "The Internet
is a free medium. Nobody can stop us, so we can do whatever we want." (Or
similar.) Well, this is very, very na?ve at best. I don't want to think bad of
any true Duck fan, and I'm sure they have been acting with the very best
intentions, so I'll presume that the people involved here are just that...
na?ve. Otherwise, it wouldn't be hard to think of several other, less
flattering attributes for people with this kind of opinions. "Dangerous" would
be one of the more neutral.

Now, I can understand that modern technology allows for some sort of
"information revolution", and even though I'm not much of a revolutionary guy
myself, I can certainly appreciate much of that. But, as has been pointed out,
and needs to be pointed out again: Information and art is not the same
thing, I
repeat NOT the same thing. Granted, the boundaries may be blurry at times, but
most of the time it should be pretty clear-cut what one could do or not.

And publishing complete Disney comic stories is a very clear "not". I think
it's outrageous! Guys, please keep your fan sites! They are beautiful and
informative and do a world of good for budding Duck fans all over the
planet; a
true sign of what dedicated fandom can achieve. But also, for all our sakes,
please keep them clean!!! Make use of the illustration and quotation rights as
much as you dare, but if you really MUST scan a whole story for some friend
who
really, really can't get his hands on the actual magazine... put it on a
secret
page that only a few select people can reach, and DON'T advertise it on a
public forum like this! Please. I'm not saying this to express any sympathy
with the Disney company or its ways to enforce its will, nor am I going to
squeal. I'm just speaking out of what I thought should be common sense for
anybody, and out of concern that all the good things you do may be damaged.

Finally: John Garvin's vision of the future really scares me. I'm not prophet
enough to tell whether it will come true or not, but I believe, for reasons
stated many times recently by wise contributors to this list, that we all
would
do well to try to prevent it for as long as we could. Ah well, so far, so bad.
But when John says things like:


>
>  It is a human 
> right to break a bad law. If enough people do it, the laws get swept away.



I even get scared of the man himself. From such convictions stem movements
that
I don't want to discuss on this list, or anywhere else, for that matter. I
can't believe that John deep down inside really means that, and wants to
preach
the message to others. Hopefully, he just enjoys some rhetoric drama. Why,
some
of the other things he says actually makes good sense to me! But if he does
mean what he says above... well, I can only hope that none of his friends ever
get into their heads that any law protecting my personal safety is a bad one.

Boy, I never thought I could feel so queasy from reading a discussion about
one
of my favorite fun subjects. I hope I can relax with a good Duck story. On
paper and paid for.


Stefan Dios
Malmo, Sweden






From pekka.malmstrom at uppsala.mail.telia.com  Thu Oct 19 01:07:00 2000
From: pekka.malmstrom at uppsala.mail.telia.com (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Per-Erik_Malmstr=F6m?=)
Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 01:07:00 +0200
Subject: DCML digest, Vol 1 #293 - 7 msgs
References: <4.3.2.7.0.20001018200605.00a9eef0@pop5.inter.nl.net>
Message-ID: <002201c03958$37337b80$f01c40d5@a00100353>

Henri Kunne wrote:
> >Oh, er, the naked-mice part... I don't remember writing that. You must 
> >have quoted someone else.
> 
> Did I? Now take a look: [...] 
> You didn't retain my quote, so I had to paste it from the previous posting. 
> In your original of
> Tuesday 17th, it hasn't got any > or | sign or whatever. How can that be, 
> it these words
> aren't yours?

Sigh, I make an embarrassing error and shamelessly try to get off the hook, and what do you do: unmask my little cover-up and once again quote m... er, that anonymous Disney lawyer who is lurking on this list. Blame him. Blame Canada.

Ciao,
/Per-Erik
    - who, in the future, will try to remember the ":-)"-sign.





From yotc1958 at yahoo.com  Thu Oct 19 03:49:12 2000
From: yotc1958 at yahoo.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?Andy=20Boettcher?=)
Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 18:49:12 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Deutsche Mailingliste
Message-ID: <20001019014912.24829.qmail@web1006.mail.yahoo.com>

Hi Stefan (and anyone else without access to
German-English ONLINE dictionary or translation
sites):

Here goes:

> From: "Stefan Persson" <reimersholme at hotmail.com>
> To: <Thomas.Krause at Firemail.de>,
>         "Englische Mailingliste"
> <dcml at stp.ling.uu.se>
> Subject: Re: Deutsche Mailingliste
> Date:   Wed, 18 Oct 2000 17:57:02 +0200
> 
> Could someone please translate this? I can't
> understand!
>   ----- Original Message ----- 
>   From: Thomas Krause 
>   To: Englische Mailingliste 
>   Sent: Sunday, October 15, 2000 9:26 AM
>   Subject: Deutsche Mailingliste
> 
> 
>   Hi LTBs, Disney oder Carl Barks Fans,

Hi ??? (LTBs), Disney or Carl Barks Fans,
> 
>   Wenn ihr Lust auf eine Deutsche Mailingliste habt
> schreibt mir ein Mail.
> 

If you're interested in a German (language) mailing
list, send me an e-mail.

> 
>   The LTB-Fansite Master:
> 
>   Thomas Krause
> 
>    
> 
>   E-Mail: Thomas.Krause at Firemail.de
> 
>   or: T at Krause.as
> 
>   Homepage:
> http://home.t-online/home/l-k.krause.gm/LTB
> 
>   or: http://www.zap.to/Ltb
_______________________________________________

Sorry, to disappoint anyone expecting something on
"lust" and nude ducks or mice....but the original
German noun, "Lust", has a wider meaning and in
general usage means only to be keen on or enthusiastic
about something. As to "LTBs" haven't got a clue
(maybe some German Internet or duck insider
abbreviation...)?

Ciao for niao,

Andy Boettcher, Tokyo

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Messenger - Talk while you surf!  It's FREE.
http://im.yahoo.com/



From arthurfaria at projesom.com.br  Thu Oct 19 08:25:48 2000
From: arthurfaria at projesom.com.br (Arthur Faria Jr.)
Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 04:25:48 -0200
Subject: Paulo Melo: Brazilian stories in Portugal
References: <200010181605.SAA14532@numerus.ling.uu.se>
Message-ID: <004a01c03996$40f2b760$92a1fbc8@default>

    PAULO MELO:

    Thanks for the long list of Brazilian stories published
in Portugal. Some remarks:

> B970153 - (Foli?o) Surfando na Internet [(?????) Surfing on the Internet]
> 5 pages - I Don't know the English name of the character, can anyone help?
> (seems an Italian character - member of Peperetta?? Gang)

    Foli?o is actually the Aracuan bird who appeared in "The Three
Caballeros" movie (and others). He was reused in many Brazilian stories
of the 80s and 90s as one of the "Adolescentes" (Disney teens), together
with Pata Lee (the Italian Paperetta Ye-ye) and others teen characters
created here in Brazil.

> B880134 - (Maga Patal?gika) A velhinha da hora [(Magica de Spell) The old
> lady of the hour] 7 pages - featuring Magica's apprentice nephew,
> Peralta, which I only found on Brazilian stories so far ... Is it a
> "Brazilian" character?

    Bruxinho Peralta isn't Magica's nephew: he's Hazel Witch's and appeared
in one or more stories in the 60s. His original American name is "Witchis Witch"
(if I spelled it right).

> B900051 - (Urtig?o) D?-lhe Urtig?o [(Moe) Hit-it, Moe] 8 pages

    This story is the 1st part of a 3-part series, where Hard Haid
Moe (Urtig?o) becomes a kickboxing fighter. Plot by Edgar Herrero, who
wrote the first part. I wrote the next two parts.

> B860125 - (*Donald) Pat?polis na idade da pedra [(*Donald) Duckburg in the
> stone age] 10 pages - first on a series of 7 stories forming a
> BIG one (107 pages in total), describing the evolution of Duckburg during
> the ages, and the importance of the tic-tac-toe stone on its evolution.  A
> MUST READ series. (even if the first two stories, added later, are a
> little weaker than the rest IMHO)

    This series was titled "Hist?ria de Pat?polis" (Duckburg's History)

> B860127 - (*Hor?cio) Embarcando numa galera furada [(*Horace
> Horsecollar) Boarding a sinking galley] 6 pages

    The main character isn't Horace Horsecollar: it's *Boinif?cio*, Clarabelle's
unlucky cousin. This character was created (as well as "new" Daisy) by that time
and the editors wanted to make them well known by the readers, so they ordered
those two stories to be added to the original series when it was reprinted.

> B00007 - (Z? Carioca) O r?ptil devorador [(Joe Carioca) The
> reptile...] 12 pages - first 2000 story from Brazil I read. STRANGE art
> (inspired on American (non-Disney) comics and watercolor painting??) .

    First story written and drawn by Fernando Ventura, with colors by
Studio NW.

> B990051 - (Z? Carioca) Papagaio ou pe?o? [(Joe Carioca) Parrot or
> Cowboy?] 7 pages - I must say I like the art from the new Joe Carioca
> stories

    Art by Dave Santana, and the first story by Studio NW.

> B000059 - (Donald) Um desfile monstruoso [(Donald) A monstrous
> parade] 11 pages - The new art doesn't seem "quite right" on the Ducks,
> however

    Story by Gerson Teixeira, art by Eli Leon. Leon is one of Abril's
veteran artist (since 1984, I guess)

> ?????? - (Mickey) Uma festa muito doida [(Mickey) A very wacky party] 10
> pages - No code, but I could swear this is a story from Brazil, from
> 99/2000 (like the next unnumbered stories on this issue). The new art is
> refreshing, but it may be an acquired taste for some. This script is
> *really* warped

    It's B 000043. Art by Roberto Fukue (according to Fernando Ventura).
Again, a *very* veteran artist.

> ??????? - (Z? Carioca) O prato do dia [(Joe Carioca) Today's menu] 8
> pages - this one is also from Brazil, in the same time frame - don't know
> what happened to the codes (perhaps the pages were cropped? Or did they
> send the stories without the codes?)

    It's B 990059. Written by me.

> ??????? - (Z? Carioca) Que intelig?ncia [(Joe Carioca) Smart... very
> smart] 2 pages - like the former

    B 000003.

> ??????? - (Z? Carioca) O espirito "pascoalicio" [(Joe Carioca) "Eastery"
> spirit] 8 pages

    B 000013.

> ??????? - (Mickey e Minnie) Rom?ntico Canino [(Mickey and Minnie)
> Dogged Romantic] 8 pages

    B 000025.

> ??????? - (Z? Carioca) Tudo acabado entre n?s! [(Joe Carioca) It's the
> end of the road for us!] 10 pages

    B 990083.

> ??????? - (Z? Carioca) A misteriosa ?rea 13 [(Joe Carioca) Area 13]
> (what else?) 13 pages

    B 990060. Art by Eli Leon, written by me.

> ??????? - (Z? Carioca) O pr?mio da lotaria [(Joe Carioca) The big
> lotto] 8 pages

    B 990057.

> ??????? - (Z? Carioca) Que artista [(Joe Carioca) What an artist!] 2
> pages - "new" art

    B 990100. Art by Dave Santana.

> ??????? - (Z? Carioca) As cartas n?o mentem [(Joe Carioca) The cards
> don't lie!] 9 pages - "new" art, but less extreme (99 style?)

    B 990056. Art by Eli Leon.

> ??????? - (Z? Carioca) Se n?o chover, voc? dan?a [(Joe Carioca)
> Either it rains, or you do the dance] 8 pages

    B 990090. Art by Luis Podavin.

> ??????? - (Z? Carioca) Loucura na pista [(Joe Carioca) Madness on Formula
> 1] 9 pages

    B 990092. Art by Eli Leon.

> B990055 - (*Pedr?o) Pedr?o Madrinho [(?????) Fairy God-Pedr?o?] 11
> pages - Pedr?o is a member of Joe Carioca's gang - one of his best
> friends. I don't believe it used outside Brazil. Also, I believe it was
> the first Disney regular comics character (drawn at least since the 80s,
> probably earlier) that is unmistakably a dark-skinned human.

    Pedr?o ("big" Pedro) was created (probably) in 1973. Very nice
character to write stories of. Sometimes I see Carioca, Nestor and
Pedr?o as a kind of "Three Stooges" -- funny and inseparable!

> B990052 - (Z? Carioca) Rival fixe [(Joe Carioca) A cool rival] 8
> pages - again Pedr?o is the real lead in this story, this time in his
> "super"-hero alter-ego, Capit?o Porreta (this was the first time I read of
> his alter-ego, I'm sure its seldom used)

    Four stories AFAIK: B 860120, B 860175, B 930075 and B 990052.

> B990036 - (Z? Carioca) A verdade est? a saltar [(Joe Carioca) The truth
> is hopping there] 8 pages - another X-files parody that's also the sequel
> to the previous story

    Art by Gustavo Machado, written by me. X-Files fans shouldn't
miss this story... it's not the best of mine, but Machado made
very nice caricatures of Mulder and Scully (in cameo appearances) ;-)
Curiosity: The editors liked the inteligent fleas of the previous story
(written by me, too) and ordered a sequel showing what happened with them...
so I did it.

> ??????? - (Z? Carioca) Os lavadeiros [(Joe Carioca) Washing] 6 pages

    B 990029. Art by Leon, written by me.

> ??????? - (Z? Carioca) Mestre do Origami [(Joe Carioca) Origami
> master] 1 page

    B 990032. Written by me. Ok, I admit I don't like to write 1-pagers...

    Tchau,
    --Arthur.






From JALustig at aol.com  Thu Oct 19 09:42:02 2000
From: JALustig at aol.com (JALustig@aol.com)
Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 03:42:02 EDT
Subject: Northwest Bookfest in Seattle
Message-ID: <3f.b90e1cd.271fffca@aol.com>

This is addressed to handful of mailing list members who live in the Seattle 
area:

I'll be at the Cartoonists Northwest booth at the Northwest Bookfest this 
Saturday and Sunday. The Bookfest is at the Stadium Exhibition Center (next 
to Safeco Field.) CNW will have booths  #218 & 220. I'll be giving leading a 
comic book writing workshop from 11-noon on Saturday at the CNW booths. Other 
comic creators at the CNW booths include Donna Barr and Roberta Gregory.



From heinlei at mi.uni-erlangen.de  Thu Oct 19 10:19:54 2000
From: heinlei at mi.uni-erlangen.de (Gerd Heinlein)
Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 10:19:54 +0200 (MET DST)
Subject: Deutsche Mailingliste/LTB
In-Reply-To: <20001019014912.24829.qmail@web1006.mail.yahoo.com> from "=?iso-8859-1?q?Andy=20Boettcher?=" at Oct 18, 2000 06:49:12 PM
Message-ID: <200010190821.KAA09756@mi.uni-erlangen.de>

snip
>                . As to "LTBs" haven't got a clue

Abbreviation for `Lustige Taschenbuecher' - one format in which
Disney stuff is published in Germany.

G.Heinlein

> (maybe some German Internet or duck insider
> abbreviation...)?



From H.W.Fluks at kpn.com  Thu Oct 19 12:03:40 2000
From: H.W.Fluks at kpn.com (Fluks, H.W.)
Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 11:03:40 +0100
Subject: 289 (a rather silly subject)
Message-ID: <59063B5B4D98D311BC0D0001FA7E452202075F6B@l04.research.kpn.com>

> From: Antonio Svevi [mailto:robert662 at caramail.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, October 18, 2000 6:39 PM

>>> In all European comics I know of, authors get paid
>>> every time one of their stories is reprinted, in any 
>>> country.

> Asterix, Lagaffe, and countless other non Disney comics are 
> owned by their real authors.

Many others are owned by their original creators. While the newer stories
are made by others. For instance Bob & Bobette (Vandersteen), Tintin
(Herg?), Tom Poes (Toonder).
Very much like the Disney case, except that mr. Disney did very few comics
himself.

--Harry.
"Hm." (Tom Poes)



From fernandopventura at uol.com.br  Thu Oct 19 11:46:01 2000
From: fernandopventura at uol.com.br (fernandopventura@uol.com.br)
Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 07:46:01 -0200 (UOL)
Subject: O =?ISO-8859-1?Q?R=E9ptil?= Devorador!
Message-ID: <200010190946.HAA09254@orwell.uol.com.br>

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From willot.francois at ec-lille.fr  Thu Oct 19 12:17:59 2000
From: willot.francois at ec-lille.fr (=?ISO-8859-1?Q? Fran=E7ois?= Willot)
Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 12:17:59 +0200
Subject: O =?ISO-8859-1?Q?R=E9ptil?= Devorador!
References: <200010190946.HAA09254@orwell.uol.com.br>
Message-ID: <001301c039b5$dd8ad160$7c031eac@vinci.eclille.fr>

Hi Fernando!

Only one Brazilian story was published this year in France, not by you...

B 930175, M?moires d'un inventeur, 10 pages, JM 2498

Gyro and Ludwig von Drake "in the past". Art by Irineu Soares Rodrigues (?).
Emil Eagle appears in the story.

By the way, in case you recognize the stories, the following are
unidentified:

G?o: Les nerfs ? vif , 9 pages, SPG  82

This is about Gyro making inventions supposed to calm Donald's bad temper.
Art Verci Rodrigues de Mello (?).
Characters: Donald, Gyro, Scrooge, Daisy.

Donald: Humour ? la une, 6 pages, SPG

A story with Donald and Fethry at Scrooge's newspaper. Donald and Fethry are
working on the humour section of the newspaper. Maybe B 860177 or B 830078
(?).

  Francois




From reimersholme at hotmail.com  Thu Oct 19 14:27:22 2000
From: reimersholme at hotmail.com (Stefan Persson)
Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 14:27:22 +0200
Subject: 289 (a rather silly subject)
References: <59063B5B4D98D311BC0D0001FA7E452202075F6B@l04.research.kpn.com>
Message-ID: <OE390Gcr85pLBwg9Mvu0000215f@hotmail.com>

----- Original Message -----
From: "Fluks, H.W." <H.W.Fluks at kpn.com>
To: <dcml at stp.ling.uu.se>
Sent: Thursday, October 19, 2000 12:03 PM
Subject: RE: 289 (a rather silly subject)


>Many others are owned by their original creators. While the newer stories
are made by others. For instance Bob & Bobette (Vandersteen), Tintin
(Herg?), Tom Poes (Toonder).

But the creators of Suske en Wiske (why did you use the French name?),
Tintin and Tom Poes all have/had their own studios!



From jgarvin at bendcable.com  Thu Oct 19 18:54:34 2000
From: jgarvin at bendcable.com (john garvin)
Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 09:54:34 -0700
Subject: a dangerous man replies to Stefan
References: <200010191000.MAA22129@numerus.ling.uu.se>
Message-ID: <39EF274A.94D3EE80@bendcable.com>

Well, you can't complain that the list is boring anymore, eh?  In some ways this is going to sound like a personal attack, but I assure you it is not.  I'm responding to the ideas present, not the person.

Stefan:
"It's like some people believe that just because they own a computer, they have a right to get
everything else in the world for free."

What computers, and the internet, have done are to make it possible for people to share information (even information with full color pictures and sound) with each other for free.  All modern revolutions begin with some technological breakthrough.  The protestant revolution could never have happened without the printing press (which enabled average people to afford and read the bible, who
previously had to accept the word of Catholic priests as to its contents.)  The industrial revolution could not have happened without the invention of steam powered mechanical production.  Copyright law has its roots in 18th century printing presses.  There is no way it will withstand the pressures of the internet age.

"On this list, I've been amazed to see people continuously advertising fully
scanned Disney stories for anyone to read or download. An illustrated fan site
is one thing, and should be applauded if it's well maintained, yet I
thought it should be obvious to anyone that complete stories are way too much. I've been
wondering how they can to this and why somebody doesn't stop them, or even
politely tell them this is a thoughtless thing to do."

Don't forget that under the strict letter of copyright law, and illustrated fan site is NOT acceptable.  Lucas Arts, when internet usage first started exploding, actually tried to shut down every fan site it could find.  That turned into a fruitless enterprise.  Try this experiment: make a fanzine and liberally illustrate it with Disney copyrighted chracters and images, then mail a copy of
it to Disney and see what they say.  They forbade John Nichols from using them in the Barks Collector, and that was a quasi scholarly fanzine.  Posting a full story is not a thoughtless act, and your suggestion that it is seems rather insulting and condescending.  Here's something to think about:  I remember in the 1960s kids in our neighborhood would get a comic, read it, and pass it on
to their friends.  Every individual comic sold was ready by a hundred different kids or more.  Were they breaking the copyright law?  In many ways, the internet is a virtual playground.

 "Tomorrow I'll walk into the jewellers' and take a diamond
bracelet. I'm not gonna sell it, so I'm not making a profit from it. I'm
giving it to my girlfriend, who wouldn't have bought it otherwise, and the store has
lots of other bracelets anyway, so nobody loses anything. Yes, this situation
is different, but the argument is the same. And how about this: "The Internet
is a free medium. Nobody can stop us, so we can do whatever we want." (Or
similar.) Well, this is very, very na?ve at best."

This is a sloppy argument and not at all the same.  No one is suggesting that you walk into a store and steal a comic off the shelf.  In that case, the comic is a physical product, just like a box of soap or a woven rug.  But your argument shows how little you understand the information age.  The comic "book" is a product.  But what is it really?  There were tens of thousand comic books
printed in the 40s and 50s, but you don't find fan sites devoted to very many of them.  Yet the Barks stories are collected and shared all over the world.  Why?  Because of their content.  The ideas in them.  The characters and stories, all unique to Carl Barks.  Without the ideas and imagination of a creator like Barks, the comic book is just so much paper:  the publisher has nothing to
publish, the printer has nothing to print, the distributor has nothing to distribute, the bookstore has nothing to sell, and yes, the translator has nothing to translate.

The fact that an average person can scan a full color image, post it to a website, and have it instantly available to millions of other people, bypassing all those people, is revolutionary, not naive, very or otherwise.

"Otherwise, it wouldn't be hard to think of several other, less
flattering attributes for people with this kind of opinions. "Dangerous" would
be one of the more neutral."

Revolutions are only "dangerous" to those profiting from the status quo.

"But, as has been pointed out, and needs to be pointed out again: Information and art is not the same thing, I repeat NOT the same thing. Granted, the boundaries may be blurry at times, but
most of the time it should be pretty clear-cut what one could do or not. And publishing complete Disney comic stories is a very clear "not". I think it's outrageous!"

The world of ideas is the world of ideas, I see no distinction between art and information.


"Finally: John Garvin's vision of the future really scares me. I'm not prophet
enough to tell whether it will come true or not, but I believe, for reasons
stated many times recently by wise contributors to this list, that we all
would
do well to try to prevent it for as long as we could. Ah well, so far, so bad.
But when John says things like:
>
>  It is a human
> right to break a bad law. If enough people do it, the laws get swept away.

I even get scared of the man himself. From such convictions stem movements
that
I don't want to discuss on this list, or anywhere else, for that matter. I
can't believe that John deep down inside really means that, and wants to
preach
the message to others. Hopefully, he just enjoys some rhetoric drama. Why,
some
of the other things he says actually makes good sense to me! But if he does
mean what he says above... well, I can only hope that none of his friends ever
get into their heads that any law protecting my personal safety is a bad one."

What I'm about to say may sound controversial and offensive, so fair warning.

I mean exactly what I say:  It is a human right, moreover, a human responsibility, to break bad laws.  Perhaps you are afraid because you don't trust people to know the difference between bad laws and good ones.  I have more faith than that.  I'm not sure what "movements" you are talking about, but modern history is full of examples of bad laws and bad governments being overturned by
people who were not afraid to break the law:

Nelson Mandella spent almost his entire life in prison in South Africa because he refused to follow the unjust laws of Apartheid.  Yes I'm sure there were many wealthy whites in position of power who were afraid about the revolutionary changes that happened in that country.

Martin Luther King spent much of his life in jail because he refused to obey the unjust Jim Crow laws of the American South.  Yes I'm sure there were many wealthy whites in position of power who were afraid about the revolutionary changes that happened in the south.

How many people were persecuted by the unjust laws of Stallinist Russia, Nazi Germany, Communist East Germany, Zionist Israel, Milosovich's Yugoslavia?  You may think I'm exaggerating by equating these copyright issues with such great dramas of the human struggle for equality, but I think they are related, on two levels:

First, it is fear of "the law" that allows such unjust laws to flourish.  You are not afraid of John Garvin "the man" you are afraid of upsetting the status quo.  It is people like you who "look the other way" when the rights of others are abused that allowed regimes like those in South Africa to exist, and others like the Facism to sweep across Eastern and Western Europe, people who were
to cowardly to stand up for what was right, or who were profiting from the system and didn't want to see it fail.

Second, it is the control of information that makes these human abuses so easy.  The first thing a despotic government tries to do when it comes to power is take over the printing presses, TV stations, radio airwaves so they can control access to information.  The internet represents the free access to all information.

Media corporations have had it pretty good until now.  They could pay artistic geniuses starvation wages while they reaped millions from their labor.  The comic publishing industry is especially guilty of this:

a.  How much money do you think Carl Barks made for Western Publishing and the Disney Corporation?  Carl saw none of this until he started doing oil paintings in his 70s and 80s, and Disney even tried to take that away from him.

b. How much money did Superman make National Periodicals?  Joe Shuster and Jerry Siegel died in near poverty.

c. How much money did Dan DeCarlo make Harvey Publications?  They just fired him for standing up for his claim to characters he created.

d.  How much money have the various publishers of Don Rosa's "Life of Scrooge" stories made?  How much of that does Don get?  None.

While such exploitation is certainly legal, it is NOT moral or right.  And corporations who routinely exploit others certainly do not get sympathy from me when they use an army of lawyers to protect intellectual property they have "stolen" in the first place.  An information revolution is coming.  Your blind fear of it, won't stop it.

And for the record: I don't think anyone on this list is "thoughtless" or "naive" or particularly "dangerous."  Such name calling is not conducive to the free exchange of ideas.





From robert662 at caramail.com  Thu Oct 19 20:29:23 2000
From: robert662 at caramail.com (Antonio Svevi)
Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 20:29:23 +0200
Subject: A dangerous man replies to Stefan
Message-ID: <971983615021494@caramail.com>

John Garvin wrote:

>Well, you can't complain that the list is boring
>anymore, eh? In some ways this is going to sound like
>a personal attack, but I assure you it is not. 
>I'm responding to the ideas present, not the person.

I totally agree with every word you wrote in this mail!

Too many artists and writers were spolied from such big 
& greedy companies as Disney, and didn't get anything in 
return for their talent. Sigh.
 (Of course nobody on this list has anything to do with 
Aparteid or Milosevic, it's as you said only about ideas, 
not persons..).
 
______________________________________________________
Bo?te aux lettres - Caramail - http://www.caramail.com


From danshane at bellsouth.net  Fri Oct 20 15:28:33 2000
From: danshane at bellsouth.net (Dan Shane)
Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 09:28:33 -0400
Subject: John's revolution
References: <200010201000.MAA08199@numerus.ling.uu.se>
Message-ID: <002401c03a99$e7827df0$54c20e0c@NANT006>

JOHN GARVIN says:

Media corporations have had it pretty good until now.  They could pay
artistic geniuses starvation wages while they reaped millions from their
labor.  The comic publishing industry is especially guilty of this:

a.  How much money do you think Carl Barks made for Western Publishing and
the Disney Corporation?  Carl saw none of this until he started doing oil
paintings in his 70s and 80s, and Disney even tried to take that away from
him.

b. How much money did Superman make National Periodicals?  Joe Shuster and
Jerry Siegel died in near poverty.

c. How much money did Dan DeCarlo make Harvey Publications?  They just fired
him for standing up for his claim to characters he created.

d.  How much money have the various publishers of Don Rosa's "Life of
Scrooge" stories made?  How much of that does Don get?  None.

While such exploitation is certainly legal, it is NOT moral or right.  And
corporations who routinely exploit others certainly do not get sympathy from
me when they use an army of lawyers to protect intellectual property they
have "stolen" in the first place.

============================================================================
===

AND I REPLY:

I've watched this debate with interest, though I take no stand on the
legality of copyright laws as they now exist.  I avoid involvement, not out
of the fear John speaks of, but because it really doesn't affect me
personally (for now).

But I do feel the urge to insert one more factor in the case for change.
The laws as they exist (at least as far as they concern Disney comics) don't
keep Don Rosa and others from collecting royalties.  The publishing
companies do.  Because Disney claims the right to all artists' work, then
sells publishing rights to Egmont, et. al., those companies now have the
ability to reproduce the work royalty-free.

That doesn't mean the companies CAN'T pay the creators royalties.  It means
they are not legally (until the court says different) REQUIRED to do so.  If
the publishers were nice folks and willing to share the 3 cubic acres of
cash they have accumulated from repeated issues of "free" material, they
could pay the authors and artists any royalty they fell they can afford.

Instead, they make a conscious decision NOT to.  Disney says they don't have
to pay royalties, but Disney cannot tell the publishers how to spend their
money.  They can put the artist on the payroll just as easily as they do the
printer and the accountant (and the lawyer).  They have simply chosen to
cheap out because Disney says they can.  Is Disney the Evil Empire of Greed?
I'm not about to make a public statement on that count.  But Disney has lots
of help from people who could be making a difference the other way.

I suspect we will see the shakeup John has been talking about thanks to
Napster and the fan sites on the Web.  Good or bad, it looks like this
freight train is going to be impossible to stop.  Whether it is going to
benefit the artists in any way is anyone's guess.

Dan Shane -- taking a firm stand on impartial prejudice (figure that one
out, if you can)




From sgarcia at uf-isf.es  Fri Oct 20 15:40:51 2000
From: sgarcia at uf-isf.es (Santiago Garcia Banhos)
Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 15:40:51 +0200
Subject: a dangerous man replies to Stefan
In-Reply-To: <200010201000.MAA08169@numerus.ling.uu.se>
Message-ID: <002701c03a9b$5c63cc40$34446f0a@ufisf.es>

John Garvin, Stefan Dios, and others:

I have read with much interest the recent discussion on this list about
copyrights, and though I agree with someone's and some other's ideas, I'd
like to make some remarks to John Garvin, with all my respect:

>The world of ideas is the world of ideas, I see no distinction between art
>and information.
This is more or less like saying 'The world of Internet is the world of
Internet: No distinction between e-mail and websites'

IMHO: information is *researched*; art is *created* (more or less):
Information is a thing to make your living easier, and everybody has the
right to access it (like Mathematics, Phyisics, Chemistry, etc), and
everyone sees and knows it the same way. Art is an extension of the soul,
originated in one individual Human Being, and everyone may have his own
vision of Art.

>Second, it is the control of information that makes these human abuses so
>easy.  The first thing a despotic government tries to do when it comes to
>power is take over the printing presses, TV stations, radio airwaves so
>they can control access to information.  The internet represents the free
>access to all information.
All of that is right for me, too. But maybe the origin of all your arguments
is the confussion you have between 'art' and 'info'.

>b. How much money did Superman make National Periodicals?  Joe Shuster and
>Jerry Siegel died in near poverty.
Would they have died rich if they have uploaded for free all their stories?

I have nothing to do with Disney nor any big company else (I am no Disney's
lawyer :-), I even have profited from some pirated-scans on some of the DCML
members websites, which I thank gratefully. But I do not dare to go further
with pirating than just uploading some stories as a way to please fans. Just
think about this: If just one reader bought a weekly and put it on the web,
and everytone reader else downloaded it for free, there would be no more
issues next week. No more stories. No more authors even, 'cos they could not
earn his living with 'freedom of information'...

And (for I see you are keen to historical comparisons) you say a revolution
is comming. Yeah, that's right; But I just do not believe blindly on
revolutions, 'cos they may be no good at all. Must I talk about Comunist
Sovietic revolution?

And I just hope a good friend of mine (a 'declared pirate') may forgive me
about this statements.

Greetings for all of yours,

Santiago.





From H.W.Fluks at kpn.com  Fri Oct 20 16:49:52 2000
From: H.W.Fluks at kpn.com (Fluks, H.W.)
Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 15:49:52 +0100
Subject: John's revolution
Message-ID: <59063B5B4D98D311BC0D0001FA7E452202075F85@l04.research.kpn.com>

> From: Dan Shane [mailto:danshane at bellsouth.net]
> Sent: Friday, October 20, 2000 2:29 PM

> That doesn't mean the companies CAN'T pay the creators 
> royalties.  It means
> they are not legally (until the court says different) 
> REQUIRED to do so.

This also explains why publishing companies were not eager (and some still
aren't) to put credits to the stories they reprint. And why some publishers
in the past even refused to tell anyone the creators of specific stories.

Thanks to people like Byron Erickson, *some* publishers have improved in the
past 15 years.

--Harry.



From SRoweCanoe at aol.com  Fri Oct 20 15:56:41 2000
From: SRoweCanoe at aol.com (SRoweCanoe@aol.com)
Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 09:56:41 EDT
Subject: John's revolution
Message-ID: <bb.803825f.2721a919@aol.com>

dan wrote

<<a.  How much money do you think Carl Barks made for Western Publishing and
 the Disney Corporation?  Carl saw none of this until he started doing oil
 paintings in his 70s and 80s, and Disney even tried to take that away from
 him.>>

Actualy Western did have a profit-sharing plan in the early 1950s, I'm 
told...(I could have been told wrong).

 <<b. How much money did Superman make National Periodicals?  Joe Shuster and
 Jerry Siegel died in near poverty.>>

Thanks to Neal Adams and bad publicity, Warner Communications gave Shuster 
and Siegel a pension from the time of the first Superman movie till their 
deaths.  
The poverty was prior to that.  

<< c. How much money did Dan DeCarlo make Harvey Publications?  They just 
fired
 him for standing up for his claim to characters he created.>>

That would be Archie.  The harvey comics ended and most  were sold years ago.

Steven Rowe



From ruppel at science.helsinki.fi  Fri Oct 20 16:55:35 2000
From: ruppel at science.helsinki.fi (timo ruppell)
Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 17:55:35 +0300 (EET DST)
Subject: copy(insert opinion here)
In-Reply-To: <200010201000.MAA08169@numerus.ling.uu.se>
Message-ID: <Pine.OSF.4.20.0010201336220.22265-100000@tekno.helsinki.fi>

hi,

Some very interesting discussion about copyright, law, corporations,
morale and ethics has been going on here. Normally I'm a lurker, just
breezing through the digest every now and then, but over the last week I
have been reading it with increasing interest.

Copyright and related issues (DeCSS, DMCA, Napster) have been hotly
discussed in the public eye. Having followed these discussions on several
different forums I must say that the postings on this list represent some
of the more well spoken arguments in this debate, while at the same time 
they didn't include anything notably new or especially thought provoking.

What usually confuses people is the word "free". Freedom of Speech (or
Information if you wish) does not mean free as in "free beer". Quotes like 

>>"What computers, and the internet, have done are to make it possible for
  people to share information (even information with full color pictures
  and sound) with each other for free."

refer obviously to the cost of accessing the internet and transferring
information. However, they don't concern themselves with to the actual
freedom of the information (eg. are they allowed to freely distribute the
information).

Freedom of speech is in itself a difficult concept and more so when
applied to eg. computer code (DeCSS) or art. Often it is censored by local
government and many laws regulate it (libel, slander, hate, child-porn).
These laws are in place to make sure that the freedom of one person
doesn't intrude on the rights of another.

"Freedom of information" is a term coined in similarity to the
constitutional right regarding speech. It is mostly used when one wants to
indicate that information (ideas, computer programs and files, generally
anything one can move through the 'net) should be regarded as speech, and
as such, one should be allowed to post eg. the source of a computer
programm on the internet since one would equally be allowed to read it out
loud to a friend for example.

>>"I remember in the 1960s kids in our neighborhood would get a comic,
  read it, and pass it on to their friends.  Every individual comic sold
  was ready by a hundred different kids or more.  Were they breaking the
  copyright law?

This comment illustrates the problem. They weren't breaking the law back
then, but what about if one of the kids would have had a printing press
(for whatever odd reason) and made exact copies for every kid on the
block (or rather in the city or the world)?

When one talks about Freedom of information one has to realize that
copyright regulates this freedom just like libel, slander etc. laws
regulate free speech. The internet has made the proliferation of
hate-texts and child-pornography virtually effortless, yet no-one is
crying for an abandonment of the laws or, for that matter, thinking that
the laws will simply dissapear over time. 

Copyright for some reason gets a totally different treatment from people. 
It seems that the over all lack of respect for copyright law isn't a
consequence of any  general loss of morality (see previous paragraph),
rather I think it is simply greed or envy or hate. Stories of heartless
megacorporations and their inhuman tactics make it all so much easier
(even right) to steal from them. Does it make it any less a crime however?

>>"It is a human right, moreover, a human responsibility, to break bad
  laws."

In a democratic society personal freedom is individually the most
cherished right, however, it never extends so much as to invade the
rights of another person. With personal freedom comes the responsability
to respect the rights of others, not the responsability to trample all
over their rights just because you have a reason ("it is a bad law").

The way to get rid of a bad law is to go vote, write your representative,
write in the newspapers etc. Civil disobedience (the willfull and
exemplatory breaking of a law) is always the last resort in a democratic
society. The fact that with the internet it has become the most easy
method does not mean it should be the first one to resort to. If you don't
believe that then you don't believe in democracy (which then in itself
gives rise to a rather involved discussion).

To close up I should say that, having followed copyright issues online, I
knnow that Di$ney has been quite ignorant of the web and what goes on in
it, just go to ebay and look for illegal DVD's of disney movies being sold
there, or more obviously look at the hundreds of online disney comics. How
long this will continue, however, is anyones guess.

I strongly believe that in the absence of law enforcement (by Di$ney or
anyone) one should still try to do the right thing.

-Timo Ruppell







From pyas at swipnet.se  Fri Oct 20 19:40:22 2000
From: pyas at swipnet.se (Stefan =?iso-8859-1?Q?Di=F6s?=)
Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 18:40:22 +0100
Subject: Stefan replies to the dangerous man
Message-ID: <20001020164013.DKIV10398.fep03-svc.swip.net@stefandi>

John Garvin:

Obviously, I don't agree with everything you say. With some of it, yes, but
looking through your recent posts, it actually seems I more or less
strongly disagree with most of your ideas. Even so, I still can't predict
the future. It may very well be that you are right and I am wrong. Which is
what scares me. Not the fact that I'm wrong... I'm certainly used to
that... but some of the consequences of such a future, with all copyright
law abolished as well as other things, do bother me. Well, well. Time will
tell.

Many of these issues will drift off-topic if we beat them too long and
hard. Let's see if I can repeat or clarify my views on the stuff that's
most pertinent to the Disney Comics discussion. I still definitely maintain
that there should be a distinction between art and information, and I might
add another important distinction that shows much of the core of the
copyright laws: that between private use and public. That's why it is OK to
lend comics to your friends in the schoolyard. And I don't think many music
companies will react if I tape a copy of some favorite record to a friend,
but they will if I advertise it in the papers. I believe the law has two
important points in cases such as these: you can't make money from it AND
you can't make it public. Again, there will always be cases where the
boundaries are fuzzy - private or public? For example, I might host a poker
game in my home for some friends in an area where public gambling is
illegal. That might be fine, but if I rent a room somewhere especially for
this, letting in more people and charging them to join the game, I might be
breaking the law.

Gee, I got off-topic again. Fancy that. Anyway, basically, you can tape
music, play poker, lend out comics and probably even scan them in private
IF and ONLY IF you don't make money from it. In public, you can't do it at
all. I think that's a very reasonable law, and something we all should
honor. That's the way it works in the democratic society in which I live.
Now, I've been fortunate enough never to have had to live under another
system. If I had, I can't tell whether I might see things differently, but
as it is, I'm happy and proud that I don't.

So to me, it's still common sense that putting a complete story, to which
you don't own the rights, to the public eye is an obvious misdeed. Then
again, I'm an old-fashioned guy... maybe common sense isn't that common
anymore...

I'll also repeat that I haven't said anything to defend Disney's methods,
legally or morally. I'm not particularly interested in that company, and it
does many things that annoy me. I vividly remember the case you mention of
American Disney fanzines like The Barks Collector, and it strongly upset me
how Disney could enforce the prohibition of the fair use of
illustration/quotations rights. That was outrageous to me! I remember how
we told ourselves it could never happen in our country... we hoped, at least.

>Try this experiment: make a fanzine and liberally illustrate it with
Disney copyrighted chracters and images, then mail a copy of
>>it to Disney and see what they say.


We did just that in the late 70's (before the Barks Collector incident). My
friends and I were starting a fanzine and wanted to respect the law, so we
walked up to Disney, who had an office in Stockholm at the time. Of course
they wouldn't give us written permission to use any illustrations, but they
also made it clear "between the lines" that they wouldn't mess with us as
long as we didn't do anything really wrong. The fanzine is bigger now, and
I'm not as much involved in it as I used to be, but we still try to make a
point of not abusing the illustration right that the law does allow us...
much like The Barks Collector, although it got unjustly busted.

At times, someone asks us, "Why couldn't you print this or that story in
the fanzine so everyone can read it?" And the answer is easy: "Because we
are not allowed to." The Disney Archives in Burbank has copies of all our
issues, and we gladly keep sending the new ones, irregularly as they might
appear. We wouldn't want anyone over there get the idea that we abuse their
rights. They could tell us to cease and desist at any time, and if we did
things like publish whole stories, they would be quite right in doing so.

So even though I may not agree with everything Disney does, I see no point
in trying to make enemies with it. And once again I advise any keepers of
serious fan sites to adopt a similar view. If Disney tries to stop one fan
site, it might want to stop them all. We are all in jeopardy here. Getting
banned and keeping appearing somewhere else doesn't solve anything. In a
way, I hope that Disney's people actually read this list and check out the
sites, and come to the obvious conclusion that they are a good thing for
everybody and don't need to be intervened against.

And, John, I really don't want to hold anything personal against you,
either. You are a Duck lover! You can't be all that bad! With few
exceptions, the Donaldists I've met are warm, funny, intelligent, sociable,
peaceful people, a breed from which the vast majority of my closest friends
have emerged. In fact, the qualities of the people involved is one of the
main reasons I still want to be an active Duck fan. I don't want to think
that you are any different, and you certainly express your ideas well.

When you say:

>Perhaps you are afraid because you don't trust people to know the
difference between bad laws and good ones.

you are obviously correct. If I knew you better, I might be more convinced
that you can make this distinction more or less along the same lines as me.
But I would hardly ever encourage you to break any laws, and I sure
wouldn't trust just about anyone in the world to decide for me when to
break a law because they think the law is "bad". Spreading and encouraging
this notion is repulsive to me. It can lead to... well, as I said, not only
is it off-topic, but I also don't want to discuss it. If I did, someone
might end up thinking I've called you a terrorist, which is far from what I
think of you personally or anyone else on this list.

So maybe it's not you I'm scared of, but of some of the people that might
listen to you. Also, if I didn't think so much about it, maybe I wouldn't
be so scared of the future either.

    I've seen the future, brother
    And it's murder!
          --- Leonard Cohen


Peace, Ducks and happiness,



Stefan Dios
Malmo, Sweden






From marmelmm at drexel.edu  Fri Oct 20 18:49:14 2000
From: marmelmm at drexel.edu (M. Mitchell Marmel)
Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 12:49:14 -0400
Subject: A Copyright Thought
In-Reply-To: <20001020164013.DKIV10398.fep03-svc.swip.net@stefandi>
References: <20001020164013.DKIV10398.fep03-svc.swip.net@stefandi>
Message-ID: <p04310102b61627bad127@[129.25.19.57]>

It occurs to me that if Disney offered a complete comic collection, 
either online or CD-ROM, this discussion probably wouldn't exist... :D

-MMM-



From dellarciprete at tiscalinet.it  Sat Oct 21 01:14:21 2000
From: dellarciprete at tiscalinet.it (Ugo Dell'Arciprete)
Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 01:14:21 +0200
Subject: R: who's there?
References: <200010201000.MAA08181@numerus.ling.uu.se>
Message-ID: <001301c03aeb$7b8ae680$01790b3e@arciprete>

> From: Antonio Svevi <robert662 at caramail.com>

>  (Of course nobody on this list has anything to do with 
> Aparteid or Milosevic 

You never know...
Perhaps Slobo is a Disney comics fan and a lurking member of this list.
(hey Per, any suspect Serbian address in your list?)

Ugo




From cien2 at cbn.net.id  Sat Oct 21 05:04:57 2000
From: cien2 at cbn.net.id (Arie Fachrisal)
Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 10:04:57 +0700
Subject: Disney should hire lawyer Sharky to prevent those copyright abuses ;)
References: <200010211000.MAA27411@numerus.ling.uu.se>
Message-ID: <01ff01c03b0e$855fc180$8b1c9eca@kulim>

> From: "M. Mitchell Marmel" <marmelmm at drexel.edu>
> It occurs to me that if Disney offered a complete comic collection,
> either online or CD-ROM, this discussion probably wouldn't exist... :D
Mwahahahaha, the best line i've read so far :) I completely agree with you
on this one. Gladstone, or whover the next publishing company gaining the
publishing right, should think about this.
btw, i'm sure you' ve all heard about abandonware ring, which is sites with
old commercial PC games in it. I think putting scanned stories online is
actually to be encouraged as long as the stories scanned are the oldies, no
longer reprinted for many years, half-forgotten, but have some charms in it.
Just like the old commercial games in abandonware ring, those games never
lose their tags as commercial games but somehow the companies even closed
their eyes on what's happening simply because the fans are right, the games
are hardly available anymore. Well, wrong example maybe, comics and
softwares are two differrent things but hey, at least i've said all my ten
cent's worth :)
I must say thank you to the ones who've put scans of Barks' stories like
Treasure of marco Polo and Darkest Africa stories. If not for em, i may
never enjoy those stories since last time i participated, a single issue of
CBLiC containing Darkest Africa story sold for >$70. Imagine that for a $9
comic album. Sigh.

Best,
Arie Fachrisal





From bi442 at lafn.org  Sat Oct 21 19:36:16 2000
From: bi442 at lafn.org (Rob Klein)
Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 10:36:16 -0700
Subject: Copyright Laws
Message-ID: <200010211707.e9LH74v42269@zoon.lafn.org>

Being a writer/artist contributor to Disney Comics, and hoping to sell
graphic representations of my own stories with my own characters some day,
I must agree completely with Stefan Dios.  The internet revolution is a
good thing for disseminating information.  However, it must not be used to
provide free copies of facsimiles of finished products to the would-be
customers of those products.  If the product is written stories and related
illustrations printed on paper, the internet can provide a free facsimile
of the product for sale to anyone on the internet who has a printer.  There
are two general groups of  comic book purchasers: (1) those who buy to just
to read and enjoy the stories, and (2) those who "collect" the series (want
to physically posess the actual book).  Mass distribution of complete
stories (or completely rproduced comic books) over the Internet would ruin
sales from BOTH types of purchasers.  In the future, ever more people will
connect to the internet and the costs of computer graphics equipment will
be getting evermore affordable to the average person.  Downloaders will be
able to obtain free copies of each page of a comic book (with opportunity
to put it on better paper with better colour quality); and they could bind
it into any format they would like.  Under this scenario, very few hard
core fans will want to buy the original comic book from the "authorised
publisher".  When this happens, no publishing firms will buy the rights to
publish anything.  The creators who work for those publishers would lose a
high percentage of their employment opportunities.  They would be forced to
self - publish and compete with many others to try to earn a living.  Self
- publishing will exist; but only if safeguards are instituted to ensure
that the creator/publisher can receive monetary compensation for receipt of
his material from the people that want to read and/or posess copies of it. 


If there is no way to ensure that, the only writer/artists that will create
anything to be shown to the public will be those who have a different
source of income to live on.  Such a scenario would be a terrible loss to
society.  Those who advocate diseminating all art for free to anyone
interested should think twice.  Would I risk putting all my time and effort
into creating graphic stories to sell if I knew that anyone could reproduce
them and distribute them for no cost to anyone who wants them?  No!  I have
no other source of income that allows me the free time to be such a
philanthropist.

This problem relates to the basic reasons societal rules and laws exist: to
create a way people can live together in a system that works.  When we have
an orderly system that works (to some extent fairly) as we do in the
"Western World" we should not try to overthrow that order by deciding to
break whichever laws we consider "unjust or bad".  It is true that most of
the nations represented by DCML are not "true democracies"; but are at
least (in most cases) representative governments.  If enough people in
those countries unite to make their wishes known, they can make changes
within the system.  When individuals on a large scale break laws because
the don't agree with them, chaos, or at least large scale turbulance
occurs.

It is up to the people using the internet to use it reasonably and respect
the "spirit" of current national and international rules and laws.  You can
choose to disregard them.  But if enough people do, the very product you
enjoy to receive for free, will become extinct.

The bottom line in anything that regards human society is that "The Golden
Rule" should be applied.  Always think of all the people who might be
affected by an action, and imagine yourself in all of their places.  Then,
consider the consequences of your action.   

Here's an idea!  Get every Disney Comic fan you know together and all write
this note to every Disney Comics publisher worldwide:  "We will not buy any
more Disney Comics until you pay royalties to your contracted or employed
creators!" "Do not worry about your additional costs, as if you pay the
royalties, we promise to bring you new customers by telling everyone we
know about your comics, and showing them to many potential new fans!"

Oops!  I forgot!  It won't help for us to get royalties, as the publishers
will all be bankrupt due to internet uploading!

Rob Klein 






  













From marmelmm at drexel.edu  Sat Oct 21 19:50:36 2000
From: marmelmm at drexel.edu (M. Mitchell Marmel)
Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 13:50:36 -0400
Subject: Copyright Laws
In-Reply-To: <200010211707.e9LH74v42269@zoon.lafn.org>
References: <200010211707.e9LH74v42269@zoon.lafn.org>
Message-ID: <v04210135b61786a26cfd@[216.158.29.118]>

At 10:36 AM -0700 10/21/00, Rob Klein wrote:

>If there is no way to ensure that, the only writer/artists that will create
>anything to be shown to the public will be those who have a different
>source of income to live on.  Such a scenario would be a terrible loss to
>society.  Those who advocate diseminating all art for free to anyone
>interested should think twice.  Would I risk putting all my time and effort
>into creating graphic stories to sell if I knew that anyone could reproduce
>them and distribute them for no cost to anyone who wants them?  No!  I have
>no other source of income that allows me the free time to be such a
>philanthropist.

Just as a side note:  Most "classical" art (DaVinci, Botticelli, et 
cetera) was produced either as a commission or under the patronage of 
a wealthy family.  The phenomenon of artist as self-supporting entity 
is a relatively new one, which is why the term "starving artist" is 
so common... :)

-MMM-

ObDisney:  Jay Leno made a rather funny remark in his monologue the 
other night, speculating whether researchers studying Viagra in 
laboratory rats used deshabille pictures of Minnie Mouse as visual 
stimuli for their subjects...




From reynaud at inwind.it  Sat Oct 21 20:18:00 2000
From: reynaud at inwind.it (Pietro Reynaud-Bersanino)
Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 20:18:00
Subject: DCML digest, Vol 1 #296 - 8 msgs
In-Reply-To: <200010211000.MAA27411@numerus.ling.uu.se>
Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20001021201800.2dc77f96@popmail.inwind.it>

In  DCML digest, Vol 1 #296, Santiago Garcia Banhos wrote:


>IMHO: information is *researched*; art is *created* (more or less):
>Information is a thing to make your living easier, and everybody has the
>right to access it (like Mathematics, Phyisics, Chemistry, etc), and
>everyone sees and knows it the same way. Art is an extension of the soul,
>originated in one individual Human Being, and everyone may have his own
>vision of Art.

Of course Art is personal but it is difficult, IMO, to define it as
individual in fact a Human Being produce art because he/she lives in a
history, in the nature and in a society that condition him and inspire him.  

IMO the prove of these is that almost all artists like to express their art
outside because they know that their art is something who came from
outside, it is worked in their souls and has to go outside again.

IMO yuo cannot pay for an "extension of the soul", you can just pay for the
time the artist use to "exent his soul" ... once that time was paied the
extension of soul is free because I explained it befoure




From cien2 at cbn.net.id  Sun Oct 22 00:32:55 2000
From: cien2 at cbn.net.id (Arie Fachrisal)
Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2000 05:32:55 +0700
Subject: DCML digest, Vol 1 #297 - 4 msgs
References: <200010221000.MAA13490@numerus.ling.uu.se>
Message-ID: <000b01c03bc3$6e5ca240$c51c9eca@kulim>

> I must say thank you to the ones who've put scans of Barks' stories like
> Treasure of marco Polo and Darkest Africa stories. If not for em, i may
> never enjoy those stories since last time i participated, a single issue
of
> CBLiC containing Darkest Africa story sold for >$70. Imagine that for a $9
> comic album. Sigh.
I must have wrote that one when i was sleepy. What i really meant was that
"Since last time i participated biddings in eBay.com, i saw a single issue
of CBLiC........"

Best,
Arie Fachrisal




From jgarvin at bendcable.com  Sun Oct 22 18:54:21 2000
From: jgarvin at bendcable.com (john garvin)
Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2000 09:54:21 -0700
Subject: disney publishing...
References: <200010221000.MAA13478@numerus.ling.uu.se>
Message-ID: <39F31BBD.C4427F5A@bendcable.com>

Arie:
"I must say thank you to the ones who've put scans of Barks' stories like
Treasure of marco Polo and Darkest Africa stories. If not for em, i may
never enjoy those stories since last time i participated, a single issue of
CBLiC containing Darkest Africa story sold for >$70. Imagine that for a $9
comic album. Sigh."

One of the other great things about the internet:  Disney can no longer "rewrite" history and
pretend that the racism (and other isms) of the 40s and 50s did not exist.  I bought the entire
Barks library in the 80s and you can't imagine how disappointed I was to learn that many of the
stories had been heavily edited and censored.  Since most can't afford Darkest Africa, reading
it online is currently the only way you will EVER see it in its original form.

Rob Klein:

 "Mass distribution of complete
stories (or completely rproduced comic books) over the Internet would ruin
sales from BOTH types of purchasers.  In the future, ever more people will
connect to the internet and the costs of computer graphics equipment will
be getting evermore affordable to the average person.  Downloaders will be
able to obtain free copies of each page of a comic book (with opportunity
to put it on better paper with better colour quality); and they could bind
it into any format they would like. "

Traditional notions of publishing, collecting, and reading are going to change, like it or
not.  Almost all major publishers are experimenting with E-books and print-on-demand books.  If
you are a collector, what does it mean to have a "collection" of comics you downloaded and
printed yourself?  Will these things ever have true collector value?  I doubt it.

"If there is no way to ensure that, the only writer/artists that will create
anything to be shown to the public will be those who have a different
source of income to live on.  Such a scenario would be a terrible loss to
society.  Those who advocate diseminating all art for free to anyone
interested should think twice.  Would I risk putting all my time and effort
into creating graphic stories to sell if I knew that anyone could reproduce
them and distribute them for no cost to anyone who wants them?  No!  I have
no other source of income that allows me the free time to be such a
philanthropist."

Traditional ways of buying, selling, and yes stealing, will all be changed by the internet.
Lets say that Carl Barks wanted to publish his own comin in 1965, like Zap.  He writes and
draws it, takes it to a printer, and takes his printed copies to local shops to sell them.  If
I really like his stories and want to "steal" them and print them myself,  what do I have to
do?  In 1965, there are no photocopiers, color or otherwise, and no scanners, so I trace his
book with a mimeograph stencil.  Who would buy that?  Do you see what I'm getting at here?
Technology changes everything.

I disagree that "such a scenario" is a terrible loss to anyone.  The music industry will not be
destroyed by Napster.  Nor will the publishing industry be destroyed by the internet.
Paradigms will shift.

"This problem relates to the basic reasons societal rules and laws exist: to
create a way people can live together in a system that works.  When we have
an orderly system that works (to some extent fairly) as we do in the
"Western World" we should not try to overthrow that order by deciding to
break whichever laws we consider "unjust or bad".  It is true that most of
the nations represented by DCML are not "true democracies"; but are at
least (in most cases) representative governments.  If enough people in
those countries unite to make their wishes known, they can make changes
within the system.  When individuals on a large scale break laws because
the don't agree with them, chaos, or at least large scale turbulance
occurs."

Uh huh.  And what if that "orderly system" is in place to protect the rights of corporations to
make money and empowered by a legal system that doesn't care about right or wrong, but about
who has the most lawyers?  Civil disobedience is absolutely a valid way to make change.  I
don't want to beat a dead horse here, so I'm going to drop this thread.  I'll just point out
that the proof in what I say is all around you:  there are so many copyright infringments on
the internet RIGHT NOW that the various legal communities will never be able to stop them.

"It is up to the people using the internet to use it reasonably and respect
the "spirit" of current national and international rules and laws.  You can
choose to disregard them.  But if enough people do, the very product you
enjoy to receive for free, will become extinct."

You mean I won't be able to buy Disney comics in America anymore? Terrors.  I hate to be the
bearer of bad news, but comics in America are already dead as a viable means of making money,
at least the kind of money that a corporation thinks is worthwhile.  I create video games for a
living, write for them, do art for them, make movies for them, design them, etc.  By a factor
of 10 more kids play video games than read comics.  The internet changed our industry as well
(we've been dealing with piracy for a long time), but it did not put us out of business.

"The bottom line in anything that regards human society is that "The Golden
Rule" should be applied.  Always think of all the people who might be
affected by an action, and imagine yourself in all of their places.  Then,
consider the consequences of your action."

Alas, while good in theory, this is not very practical.  For one thing, you would be hard
pressed to give me the name of a single major corporation that follows this rule: it gets in
the way of profits.  I'll follow the golden rule, when Disney does.

"Here's an idea!  Get every Disney Comic fan you know together and all write
this note to every Disney Comics publisher worldwide:  "We will not buy any
more Disney Comics until you pay royalties to your contracted or employed
creators!" "Do not worry about your additional costs, as if you pay the
royalties, we promise to bring you new customers by telling everyone we
know about your comics, and showing them to many potential new fans!""

How many millions of profit did Michael Eisner take in stock options last year?  I don't think
profit sharing for creators would affect Disney's bottom line at all.

To bring this argument full circle:

We are talking about who gets hurt when a fan of a Disney Story scans it and posts it to the
web.  My argument is very simple:  NO ONE.  The creator makes a story (writer or artist) and
gets paid for it.  Egmont takes that story and reprints it all over Europe, it gets sent to
Brazil, Greece, Italy and reprinted again and again.  Disney editions snags it and reprints it
in a fancy hardback edition.  That's a lot of money being made, by printers, publishers,
editors, translators, distributors.  If someone copies that story and posts it onto the
internet and none of that other money gets made, who suffers?  Not the creator: he made his
money ONCE via a pernicious work-for-hire contract and will never see another dime from it.
Disagree with me if you like, but he is the only one who counts as far as I am concerned.  If
the internet prevents corporations from exploiting the work of hardworking artists, so be it..

If someone gets an address and wants to start a letter writing campaign, I'll join in
absolutely.

Steven:

"dan wrote"
I'm John.

"<<a.  How much money do you think Carl Barks made for Western Publishing and
 the Disney Corporation?  Carl saw none of this until he started doing oil
 paintings in his 70s and 80s, and Disney even tried to take that away from
 him.>>

Actualy Western did have a profit-sharing plan in the early 1950s, I'm
told...(I could have been told wrong)."

In all of the research I've done on Barks, I've never heard of any profit sharing plan.  I know
he did get a modest pension after he became an employee.


 "<<b. How much money did Superman make National Periodicals?  Joe Shuster and
 Jerry Siegel died in near poverty.>>

Thanks to Neal Adams and bad publicity, Warner Communications gave Shuster
and Siegel a pension from the time of the first Superman movie till their
deaths.
The poverty was prior to that.  "

Well, It's all relative, isn't it?  Yes they got a pension, but no where enar the amount they
deserved, and it didn't come until very late and until after much bad publicity.  So much for
the Golden Rule.

"<< c. How much money did Dan DeCarlo make Harvey Publications?  They just
fired
 him for standing up for his claim to characters he created.>>

That would be Archie.  The harvey comics ended and most  were sold years ago."

That would, of course, be very correct.  I gotta say, though Steven, that your remarks remind
me very much of a college writing instructor who returns a paper fully marked up with spelling
and grammar mistakes, but no comments as to the substance of the essay.










From marcobar at ds.unifi.it  Sun Oct 22 23:25:09 2000
From: marcobar at ds.unifi.it (Marco Barlotti)
Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2000 23:25:09 +0200
Subject: a copyright breaker speaks in favour of copyright
In-Reply-To: <200010221000.MAA13497@numerus.ling.uu.se>
Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20001022232509.0084cd30@ds.unifi.it>

At 10:04:57 Sat, 21 Oct 2000 +0700, Arie Fachrisal wrote:
>
>I must say thank you to the ones who've put scans of Barks' stories like
>Treasure of marco Polo and Darkest Africa stories. If not for em, i may
>never enjoy those stories since last time i participated, a single issue of
>CBLiC containing Darkest Africa story sold for >$70. Imagine that for a $9
>comic album. Sigh.
>

Mmmh. That's me, the first one:
http://marcobar.cce.unifi.it/comics/censored

But, honestly, I did *not* do it in order to let you spare those 70 bucks.
I did it in order to let you, and everybody, read the story as it was
originally printed and not in the CENSORED form of the CBLiC.

The same goes for the other stories I have on-line.
I would NEVER dream of putting on-line for everybody stories that are
available for sale.

When issue #0 of PKNA (Paperinik New Adventures) sold out in Italy, there
was a rumour that it was censored and that it would NEVER be published any
more. So I made a special effort and scanned 72 pages at 150 dpi and put
those on-line for everybody; and committed myself to take those pages off
the web as soon as there would be a new, uncensored edition for sale. And I
wrote that clearly on the relevant web page. I wanted to prompt Disney
Italy to make the story available again.
A few months later, the story was reprinted, unabridged and uncensored, in
a big volume (for sale  @ more than 25 Euros!). That was enough for me, and
I took the pages off the web.

The story on Mickey's marriage is another one that you can find on my web
pages. There even is a rumour that all unsold copies of that issue of
"Topolino" were destroyed! The story was never reprinted. I am going to
keep it on the web until Disney Italy reprints it. At that moment, I'll
take it off.

Is this illegal? The only thing I know, is that I feel I am doing something
right, this way. I am not depriving anybody of money: should Disney Italy
reprint that story, I'd take it off the web. While Disney Italy is
depriving the readers of the right to read a very good and unusual story!

Another story that's linked to from my "censored" pages is "I tre samurai",
writted by Gianfranco Goria. This was NEVER printed by Disney Italy! The
authors themselves decided to put it on the Web! 

Do you see my point? Some stories by Scarpa are being reprinted every 5-10
years in Italy. Should I make THESE available for everybody on the web, I
would deprive Disney Italy of some possible income from future reprints. We
may discuss whether Disney is morally right in keeping all the income for
itself (I myself think Scarpa should get part of it), but I'm standing A
STEP BEHIND this point. I am NOT questioning this right, because I feel I'd
give way to a dangerous and disruptive trend. Read Rob Klein's message in
the last Digest to see what I mean... I 100% agree with him.

There's an interesting corollary on the stuff I wrote above. What if Disney
Italy waits too much before making available "Somewhere in Nowhere", the
Barks/Lustig/Block story? Should I consider it a form of censorship, and
put the story on the web?    ;-)

And speaking of corollaries...
>
>Information is a thing to make your living easier, and everybody has the
>right to access it (like Mathematics, Phyisics, Chemistry, etc)
>
...why am I NOT allowed to copyright my math theorems?
(Think of what Descartes would have earned, had he been allowed to
copyright his coordinate system!)


    Marco





From Ola.Martinsson at uab.ericsson.se  Mon Oct 23 10:09:13 2000
From: Ola.Martinsson at uab.ericsson.se (Ola Martinsson)
Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 10:09:13 +0200
Subject: Gottfredson portfolio for sale
References: <200010171000.MAA32687@numerus.ling.uu.se>
Message-ID: <39F3F228.A85030D4@uab.ericsson.se>

I have a friend that has three of those Gottfredson portfolios
containing the complete years of the Mickey Mouse daily newspaper
strips. This has been discussed earlier on this list so I hope you all
know what portfolio I'm referring to.
Anyhow these three are from the ones that Horst Schr?der published some
years ago. They are loose papers in black and white and they are in a
red paper folder
He has the years 1937, 1944 and 1953 and he wants to sell them.
They are a little damaged from damp not so it can be seen directly but
if you bend the pack you notice that the papers don't follow the bending
until they give in for the bending power and suddenly bends over.
Also there are some red stains on the title paper and on the last paper
from the red paper folder I presume.

I and he has no idea of what can be an appropriate value for these
portfolios but we understand that they might have some value. It would
be interesting to know if anyone here on this list can help us with an
appropriate price for these.

If there is anyone that would be interested in buying these then please
contact me privately.

Ola in cloudy Stockholm +6 and calm



From sgarcia at uf-isf.es  Mon Oct 23 10:22:36 2000
From: sgarcia at uf-isf.es (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Santiago_Garcia_Ba=F1os?=)
Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 10:22:36 +0200
Subject: Info vs Art
In-Reply-To: <200010221000.MAA13497@numerus.ling.uu.se>
Message-ID: <001801c03cca$6632a7b0$34446f0a@ufisf.es>

Message: 4

Pietro Reynaud-Bersanino:
> IMO yuo cannot pay for an "extension of the soul", you can just
> pay for the
> time the artist use to "exent his soul" ... once that time was paied the
> extension of soul is free because I explained it befoure

Too much abstract for me! Allow me to avoid this too-deep argue; I just
wanted to express that Art is not the same as Info as long as you can live
without Art but can't live without Info (obviously I realize this has some
points to discuss; I say it just as an approximation).

Bye (Ciao),

Santiago.




From sgarcia at uf-isf.es  Mon Oct 23 12:26:43 2000
From: sgarcia at uf-isf.es (Santiago Garcia Banhos)
Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 12:26:43 +0200
Subject: Theorems
In-Reply-To: <200010231000.MAA29494@numerus.ling.uu.se>
Message-ID: <003101c03cdb$bcf2ff80$34446f0a@ufisf.es>

Marco:

>And speaking of corollaries...
>>
>>Information is a thing to make your living easier, and everybody has the
>>right to access it (like Mathematics, Phyisics, Chemistry, etc)
>>
>...why am I NOT allowed to copyright my math theorems?
>(Think of what Descartes would have earned, had he been allowed to
>copyright his coordinate system!)

Because it's hard enough to encourage children to study Maths, for making'em
even pay royalties! :-)

Santiago.




From pyas at swipnet.se  Mon Oct 23 17:35:39 2000
From: pyas at swipnet.se (Stefan =?iso-8859-1?Q?Di=F6s?=)
Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 16:35:39 +0100
Subject: a copyright breaker speaks in favour of copyright 
In-Reply-To: <200010231000.MAA29500@numerus.ling.uu.se>
Message-ID: <20001023143535.NOE24946.fep04-svc.swip.net@stefandi>

Marco (and Arie):

>But, honestly, I did *not* do it in order to let you spare those 70 bucks.
>I did it in order to let you, and everybody, read the story as it was
>originally printed and not in the CENSORED form of the CBLiC.
>
>The same goes for the other stories I have on-line.
>I would NEVER dream of putting on-line for everybody stories that are
>available for sale.
-----
>The story on Mickey's marriage is another one that you can find on my web
>pages. There even is a rumour that all unsold copies of that issue of
>"Topolino" were destroyed! The story was never reprinted. I am going to
>keep it on the web until Disney Italy reprints it. At that moment, I'll
>take it off.
>
>Is this illegal? The only thing I know, is that I feel I am doing something
>right, this way. I am not depriving anybody of money: should Disney Italy
>reprint that story, I'd take it off the web.
------
>Do you see my point? Some stories by Scarpa are being reprinted every 5-10
>years in Italy. Should I make THESE available for everybody on the web, I
>would deprive Disney Italy of some possible income from future reprints.


I think I need to say that I understand this reasoning quite well. I like
these arguments a lot better than the ones I tried to put down in my
earlier postings. I still wouldn't want to stand behind such a publishing
myself, and I wouldn't recommend anyone else to do it, but I won't open my
beak and complain very loud about it either... unless it goes too far.
Legally, it might be just as bad, but "morally" (there we go again), I'm
much more inclined to dislike illegal publishing of stories that are
readily available elsewhere. I don't want to look like a turncoat here, but
I won't hide the fact that I, too, indeed have some understanding of the
notion that the spirit of the law should be just as important as its
letter. But where, o where to draw the line?!??

So, even though I don't applaud this behavior, I guess this is as much of
an acceptance as you'll ever get from me... for whatever that's worth!

I also like to thank everyone for their input, especially those who
elaborated on my two most important points. Rob Klein (and others)
explained  the dangers of a world void of copyright laws, while Timo
Ruppell (and others) explained some basic facts of freedom and democracy...
both, I'm sure, better than I could have done. Also, thanks to all those
who supported my opinions, on the list or in private, and not the least:
Thanks to those who favored the opposing view, or we wouldn't have a
discussion.


Stefan Dios
Malmo, Sweden






From H.W.Fluks at kpn.com  Mon Oct 23 17:58:04 2000
From: H.W.Fluks at kpn.com (Fluks, H.W.)
Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 16:58:04 +0100
Subject: True things
Message-ID: <59063B5B4D98D311BC0D0001FA7E4522044BED11@l04.research.kpn.com>

People seem to use the word "true" in a way I don't understand. First, Rob
Klein:

> most of
> the nations represented by DCML are not "true democracies"; but are at
> least (in most cases) representative governments.

I guess I shouldn't consider this as "my country is better than yours",
since I don't know if Rob thinks the USA is a "true democracy". But I still
don't know what a "true democracy" might be...


And then John Garvin:

> If
> you are a collector, what does it mean to have a "collection" 
> of comics you downloaded and
> printed yourself?  Will these things ever have true collector 
> value?  I doubt it.

I guess, in this case, "true collector value" means "money".
I collect the *stories* in order to *enjoy* them (and brag about them to
others). Not to *sell* them at any point. So that means I am not a true
collector? (Or my collection has no "true collector value"?) To me, I am
(and it does).

> [someone's] remarks remind
> me very much of a college writing instructor who returns a 
> paper fully marked up with spelling
> and grammar mistakes, but no comments as to the substance of 
> the essay.

A factual error is something different from a spelling mistake. And noting
that doesn't necessarily disturb a discussion (especially on a mailing
list). As long as noone sees it as a personal attack.

--Harry.
(A false collector from a false democracy)



From fabio5.rossi at telecomitalia.it  Tue Oct 24 14:06:58 2000
From: fabio5.rossi at telecomitalia.it (Fabio Rossi)
Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 14:06:58 +0200
Subject: R: True things
In-Reply-To: <59063B5B4D98D311BC0D0001FA7E4522044BED11@l04.research.kpn.com>
Message-ID: <000301c03db2$eaa92300$25163a0a@lo.telecomitalia.it>


> -----Messaggio originale-----
> Da: Fluks, H.W. [mailto:H.W.Fluks at kpn.com]
> Inviato: luned? 23 ottobre 2000 17.58
> A: dcml at stp.ling.uu.se
> Oggetto: True things
> 
> 
> People seem to use the word "true" in a way I don't 
> understand. First, Rob
> Klein:
> 
> > most of
> > the nations represented by DCML are not "true democracies"; 
> but are at
> > least (in most cases) representative governments.
> 
> I guess I shouldn't consider this as "my country is better 
> than yours",
> since I don't know if Rob thinks the USA is a "true 
> democracy". But I still
> don't know what a "true democracy" might be...
> 

a country where the government sentence to death the own citizens, is true democracy?
I don't think... 




From bi442 at lafn.org  Tue Oct 24 17:01:01 2000
From: bi442 at lafn.org (Rob Klein)
Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 08:01:01 -0700
Subject: True democracy
Message-ID: <200010241431.e9OEVgS02851@zoon.lafn.org>

This is a bit off topic, but an answer to Harry Fluks question about "true
democracy".  I consider the USA as a republic with a loosely
"representative" government.  Individual citizens vote directly on very few
issues and not even directly for their most important representatives
(national president). The citizen votes for someone to represent him(her)
in congress (parliament).  Then he(she) must hope that the representative
votes the same way as his(her) wishes.  In a "true" democracy, all adults
should be able to vote directly on all important issues affecting their
lives.  Danmark comes much closer to that situation than USA, but even it
is more a representative government than a "true" democracy. The ancient
Greek states wer not "true" democracies either, as they allowed slavery,
and women did not vote.  But, Harry, are you not yourself a stickler for us
not drifting off topic?  -Rob Klein




From tomas at student.com  Tue Oct 24 18:19:26 2000
From: tomas at student.com (Tomas Karlsson)
Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 12:19:26 -0400
Subject: Bo Michanek
Message-ID: <39F5B68E.A443DFFA@student.com>

Hello,

Does anyone know who I can contact Bo Michanek (email or postal
address)?

Any help would be greatly appreciated!

Tomas Karlsson




From acsive at yahoo.com  Tue Oct 24 19:57:32 2000
From: acsive at yahoo.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?Anders=20Christian=20Sivebaek?=)
Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 10:57:32 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: 4 great weeks
Message-ID: <20001024175732.21805.qmail@web1802.mail.yahoo.com>

Hi friends!
Wow what wonderful 4 weeks we're having buying the
dansih weekly. Starting with issue 40 the first part
of Don's The 3 cabelleroes rides again was published.
Together with a letter's page and a fact page about
the 3 cabelleroes. 
In the story Jos? was colored in a mixture between
blue and green... but he has the right colour, green
in the article and the next two parts. 
Issue 41 has the second part of Don's story and Daan
Jippes' version of Barks manuscript "Pawns of the Loop
Garou" as a gift-comic on 32 pages (a Wolf-story fills
the issue out, so to speak)
Issue 42 has the 3rd part of Don's splendid story and
as a gidt-comic it has Marco Rota's the mystic ball
(from Topolino 292?) A great-looking long story that
fills the pages out. 
It's a period of extras, which they in Norway chose to
make a period of thick magazines instead (as we also
do it in the summer), 
so issue 43 also has an extra comic, namely Barks'
Trick or Treat! If I understand the ad right one of
Barks's paintings for the story is used as the cover.
The publisher did that before, and it looked great!




__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Messenger - Talk while you surf!  It's FREE.
http://im.yahoo.com/



From H.W.Fluks at kpn.com  Tue Oct 24 21:04:07 2000
From: H.W.Fluks at kpn.com (Fluks, H.W.)
Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 20:04:07 +0100
Subject: True democracy
Message-ID: <59063B5B4D98D311BC0D0001FA7E4522044BED42@l04.research.kpn.com>

> From: Rob Klein [mailto:bi442 at lafn.org]
> Sent: Tuesday, October 24, 2000 4:01 PM

> In a "true" democracy, all adults
> should be able to vote directly on all important issues 
> affecting their lives.

I see.

> But, Harry, are you not yourself a stickler for us
> not drifting off topic?

This time, I was just *too* curious... 8-)

--Harry.



From p.castagno at libero.it  Thu Oct 26 22:38:46 2000
From: p.castagno at libero.it (Paolo Castagno)
Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 22:38:46 +0200
Subject: 4 great weeks
Message-ID: <G321CM$IpEariNc1TEbLrpCV6mfBJX6PDee1cK5DoEqzCp513EyF@libero.it>

Anders Christian Sivebaek wrote:
> as a gidt-comic it has Marco Rota's the mystic ball
> (from Topolino 292?) A great-looking long story that
> fills the pages out.

It is from Almanacco Topolino 292 from April 1981, Topolino 292
is from July 1961, Rota was just 19 years old back then, and his
first story dates 10 years after.

Info about this story can be found at 

http://members.xoom.it/_XOOM/inducks/creators/MRt_271_300.htm

which was updated just few days ago.

A curiosity: This story when reprinted on Super Almanacco
Paperino in 1984 was a special publication in 3D.

  - Paolo

-- 
http://members.xoom.it/inducks  mailto:p.castagno at libero.it

'Ciao, scoperto qualcosa sull'auto volante?'
'Si! Quel tipo la fa volare allineando gli atomi!'
(Pippo e Topolino in YM 032)





From p.castagno at libero.it  Thu Oct 26 19:43:43 2000
From: p.castagno at libero.it (Paolo Castagno)
Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 19:43:43 +0200
Subject: 4 great weeks
References: <20001024175732.21805.qmail@web1802.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <39F86D4F.3D705397@libero.it>

Anders Christian Sivebaek wrote:
> as a gidt-comic it has Marco Rota's the mystic ball
> (from Topolino 292?) A great-looking long story that
> fills the pages out.

It is from Almanacco Topolino 292 from April 1981, Topolino 292
is from July 1961, Rota was just 19 years old back then, and his
first story dates 10 years after.

Info about this story can be found at 

http://members.xoom.it/_XOOM/inducks/creators/MRt_271_300.htm

which was updated just few days ago.

A curiosity: This story when reprinted on Super Almanacco
Paperino in 1984 was a special publication in 3D.

  - Paolo

-- 
http://members.xoom.it/inducks  mailto:p.castagno at libero.it

'Ciao, scoperto qualcosa sull'auto volante?'
'Si! Quel tipo la fa volare allineando gli atomi!'
(Pippo e Topolino in YM 032)





From doukakis at mediaone.net  Wed Oct 25 09:00:58 2000
From: doukakis at mediaone.net (mark doukakis)
Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 00:00:58 -0700
Subject: TRUE DEMOCRACY (WAY OFF TOPIC)
Message-ID: <39F6852A.C32E8A37@mediaone.net>

Rob Klein (off topic):
    <"In a 'true' democracy, all adults should be able to vote directly
on all important issues affecting their lives. Individual citizens (in
the U.S.) vote directly on very few issues and not even directly for
their most important representatives (national president)">


Way off topic here by I gotta respond:

Huh?!  Lucy, 'splain that to me!

This "loosely representative" government offers voters, through the
various media, as much (and probably more) information and analysis as
any on issues and candidates, and offers every possible civil means for
a citizen (as an individual or more logically as a community) to
communicate to and effect his/her local government.

Why, the U.S. citizen is even directly, yes I did say directly (and I
don't know how much more directly than casting a vote on a ballot) is
able to express preference for his/her "national president"!

Mark Doukakis

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From danshane at bellsouth.net  Fri Oct 27 12:38:22 2000
From: danshane at bellsouth.net (Dan Shane)
Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 06:38:22 -0400
Subject: TRUE DEMOCRACY (WAY OFF TOPIC)
References: <39F6852A.C32E8A37@mediaone.net>
Message-ID: <001301c04002$1b715ba0$0a0a0a0a@homebrew>

----- Original Message -----
From: mark doukakis
To: dcml at stp.ling.uu.se
Sent: Wednesday, October 25, 2000 3:00 AM
Subject: TRUE DEMOCRACY (WAY OFF TOPIC)

Why, the U.S. citizen is even directly, yes I did say directly (and I don't
know how much more directly than casting a vote on a ballot) is able to
express preference for his/her "national president"!
Mark Doukakis

============================================================================
=

AND I REPLY:

A little closer study of the US electoral process will reveal that
inidviduals do not vote directly for most legislation or even for many
public officers.  The president is a good example.  Americans can cast their
individual public ballots.  Those ballots are counted in each state.
Whichever candidate "wins" in each state is supposed to be voted for by the
state's representative in the Electoral College.  But the representative
COULD conceivably vote for the other candidate, if he so desires.  Of
course, that means his constituents will probably vot HIM out of office next
election day.

This has actually happened.  When Rutherford B. Hayes was elected president,
it was by one vote.  Not one popular vote -- not by an individual voter.
But, by an ELECTORAL vote in the college.  And someone in the college had
apparently voted the wrong way.  So the People's Choice did not get chosen
that time.

Dan





From komix43 at hotmail.com  Fri Oct 27 13:49:59 2000
From: komix43 at hotmail.com (Apostolis Trikourakis)
Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 14:49:59 +0300
Subject: Komix # 149
Message-ID: <OE19NBF0ZLCaxBTbIW0000000c7@hotmail.com>

Dear DCML members

Here's the contents of the new Komix issue (# 149):

Cover by Carl Barks (Voodoo Hoodoo) - You can find a scan at
http://www.geocities.com/komixgreekpage/englishlatestissue.htm
2 pages with letters from Komix readers
2 pages article tittled "Last Goodbye to Carl Barks" subtittled "Famous and
non-famous from all over the world are saying Goodbye to the great artist"
Voodoo Hoodoo, by Carl Barks
2 pages article tittled "Black Humor in the Black Continent"
5 pages article tittled "A wonderful World" subtittled "Duck's Universe:
from Duckburg to the eternity"
1 pages article tittled "Back to the roots"
A Useful Book, by Per Erick Headman and Cesar Ferioli
2 pages article tittled "Mickey Mouse's creators"
Agente Cambadilegno: il Caso e Tuol, by Tito Faratsi and Fabio Tseloni - I
don't know the english tittle of the story. Please forgive me :-)

As usual, I can buy copies for you :-) You know my e-mail address...
Next issue will publish the Don Rosa's story "the Shrinking Tightwad"
Best Wishes

Apostolis Trikourakis, Athens
E-mail: komix43 at hotmail.com & komix at compulink.gr
Web Site: http://www.geocities.com/komixgreekpage
DCML member




From dmarkstein at earthlink.net  Fri Oct 27 15:17:11 2000
From: dmarkstein at earthlink.net (Donald Markstein)
Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 06:17:11 -0700
Subject: 4 great weeks
References: <200010251000.MAA09979@numerus.ling.uu.se>
Message-ID: <002901c04018$6cbd1e20$458c85ce@quack>

And don't forget the first appearance (in #41) of Sam Simian. (His second
story should appear in a few months, and the third is in progress now.)

Quack, Don

Read The Daily QuackT Monday thru Saturday:
http://www.back.to/quack






From favio31 at caramail.com  Sat Oct 28 12:49:53 2000
From: favio31 at caramail.com (Thierry Fernand)
Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2000 12:49:53 +0200
Subject: Taliaferro
Message-ID: <972733666003611@caramail.com>

The Taliaferro page I wrote one year ago is now the somehow 
"official" Taliaferro site on the internet.
An introduc(k)tion on Al Taliferro should be added
in a few days, written by Kevin Taliaferro, the grandson of 
Al, especially for this page.

http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Cinema/9080/

There was a question on this mailing list about how to 
pronounce Taliaferro's name. Here I'll quote 
Kevin's reply:
<<
How to pronounce our family name? It is one of those 
questions that has no right answer. The phonetical
pronunciation(and the way I say it) is tali-a-pharo but if 
you are from the south it is pronounced as Toliver. It does 
not matter which one is used. 
>>

 Favio


**********************************
Liviaonline - Free Disney Comics on The World Wide Web:
  http://www.liviaonline.com/
______________________________________________________
Bo?te aux lettres - Caramail - http://www.caramail.com


From arthur at westbrabant.net  Thu Oct 19 13:25:55 2000
From: arthur at westbrabant.net (Arthur de Wolf)
Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 13:25:55 +0200
Subject: money bin gift
References: <972733666003611@caramail.com>
Message-ID: <00a501c039bf$5d3ba2a0$491842c3@quicknet.nl>

Hi,

Two weeks ago Amy and I got married on Friday October 13th (we met online on
the X-Files newsgroup). Our wedding day was great. From this mailing list I
had invited Harry Fluks, Daniel van Eijmeren and Frank Jonker (Duco Feenstra
unfortunately couldn't make it). What they brought as a gift together was
truely amazing.

They had made an extremely heavy money bin (about 15 inches tall), made of
white plaster and filled with coins!!! Accompanied was a one-page story
written by Frank (writer of many stories for the Dutch Donald Duck Weekly).
In the story the Beagle Boys had miniturized the money bin to give it as a
gift to our wedding. We had to open the money bin from the bottom with a
hammer to get the money out, just like the Beagle Boys would break it open.
Luckily we managed to keep the money bin in one piece.

Very cute was that inside - inbetween all the Dutch nickels, dimes and
quarters - we found one "lucky" dime of the year 2000 in a small plastic
box. ;o)

We noticed that there is a dollar sign drawn on the front. Isn't Harry
always saying that the currency sign of the country should be on it? That
would have been an F for Dutch guilders. But then again, Amy is from the US.
;o)

Thanks again for this great gift guys, it is really cool.

Greetings,

Arthur de Wolf
Rotterdam - the Netherlands
Disney Comics Worldwide: http://www.wolfstad.com/dcw





From mnaiman1 at home.com  Sun Oct 29 16:52:36 2000
From: mnaiman1 at home.com (Michael Naiman)
Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2000 08:52:36 -0700
Subject: fanzines
Message-ID: <39FC47C4.6AB8BF75@home.com>

I'm looking to purchase the BARKS COLLECTOR #1 and #19...originals,
please
also issues #1-12 of the DUCKBURG TIMES

Thanks...

Michael




From kyrimis at cti.gr  Mon Oct 30 07:28:08 2000
From: kyrimis at cti.gr (Kriton Kyrimis)
Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 08:28:08 +0200 (EET)
Subject: KOMIX #149
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.21.0010300826410.938-100000@poseidon>

This month's issue of Komix is a "fortified" 100 page issue, about half
of which is dedicated to Carl Barks. Here are the contents:

* Cover by Carl Barks. I have put a scan in
  http://dias.cti.gr/~kyrimis/pics/komix149.jpg
* A two-page article titled "A last goodbye to Carl Barks", subtitled
  "Famous and ordinary people from all over the world say goodbye to
  the great creator".
* Carl Barks' "Voodoo Hoodoo" (politically correct edition).
* A two-page article titled "Black humor in the black continent",
  subtitled "With humor as his weapon, Barks sets up the story of
  _Voodoo Hoodoo_.  A two-column inset in the article is titled "Don
  Rosa comments on Voodoo Hoodoo".
* A five-page article titled "A wonderful world", subtitled "The duck
  universe: from Duckburg to eternity".
* A one-page article titled "Back to the roots", subtitled "Walt Disney's
  first steps in the historic studio in Kansas.
* A Useful Book (D 92312), written by Per Eric Hedman (sp?) and drawn
  by Cesar Ferioli Pelaez (sp?).
* A two-page article titled "The creators of Mickey Mouse", subtitled
  "_Komix_ travels to the heroic years of the first black and white
  cartoons".
* A one-page article titled "Parallel lives", subtitled "Mickey and his
  ruthless opponent, Black Pete.
* "Agente Cambadilegno: Il Caso e Tuo!", (J-2238-4) from Topolino #2238,
  written by Tito Faracci (sp?) and drawn by Fabio Celoni (sp?). This is
  one of the rare stories in Komix that has not appeared in a Gladstone
  issue.  Can't say I liked it much, though.

	Kriton	(e-mail: kyrimis at cti.gr)
	      	(WWW:    http://dias.cti.gr/~kyrimis)
-----
"This is not a war, this is a scientific application of ballistics."
-----




From kyrimis at cti.gr  Mon Oct 30 07:30:25 2000
From: kyrimis at cti.gr (Kriton Kyrimis)
Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 08:30:25 +0200 (EET)
Subject: Articles from Komix #148
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.21.0010300828110.954-100000@poseidon>

Here are the translations of two articles form last month's issue of Komix,
which I believe are of interest to the list. [As usual, comments in square
brackets are mine.]

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

          Taken from the pages of novels, Rosa's Black Night is
                         A CHARISMATIC BURGLAR

  Don Rosa, with his story, _The Black Knight_, adds a new charismatic
  figure to the dark pantheon of Carl Barks' "villains".

The secret of a hero's success is the worth of his opponents. This is why,
when Barks decided to set up an entire microworld around Scrooge McDuck,
giving him a social position, a family, and a past were not enough. He also
had to give him interesting opponents. In Barks' pages, Scrooge has to deal
with a multitude of unsavory characters having the snouts of pigs or wolves.
Standing out among them are the Beagle Boys, Magica De Spell, and Flintheart
Glomgold [none of whom are pig- are wolf- faced...]


BARKS' VILLAINS

Apart from the Beagle Boys and certain other characters making occasional
appearances, most of Barks' "villains" are not full-time criminals, although
they had often had their trouble with the law... Most times, the "villains"
represent uncle Scrooge's unsettled accounts with his own past, with a dark
side of his personality, such as, for example, Glomgold, or with e different
view about wealth and the ways to obtain it, such as Magica. Thus, Barks'
stories, even when they involve particularly clever or spectacular robbery
attempts, almost always end up in a showdown between uncle Scrooge and an
opponent symbolizing a completely different way of life.

If uncle Scrooge is triumphant in these showdowns, this does not happen only
because this is what his creator decided. In Barks' stories, the "villains"
always start with a handicap. The motive of Magica or the Beagle Boys is their
chronic pennilessness, while Glomgold's is the fact that it is his fate to be
"the world's second richest duck". If we think about it, the result of
these showdowns is preordained. None of Carl Barks' villains can stand up to
Scrooge McDuck.


LIFE AND TIMES OF THE VILLAINS

When Rosa decided to deal with the telling of the _Life and Times_ of the
richest duck in the world, his aim was simply to incorporate in one story
Barks' scattered data about his hero's past. Regarding the "villains", he
considered it enough to give an "explanation" to their perpetual rivalry with
uncle Scrooge, without altering their characters. Thus, from Blackheart Beagle
to Glomgold, Barks' "villains" obtained a complex past as well. Their fights
with Scrooge became more interesting, but the basic facts did not change.
Apart, perhaps, from Blackheart Beagle, until the Black Knight made his
appearance, none of Scrooge's various opponents did not acquire a more
charismatic personality than the duck who stood "tougher than the toughies and
smarter than the smarties".


A WORTHY OPPONENT

The Black Knight is, a last, a "villain" as charismatic as the tycoon from
Duckburg. Unlike Glomgold, who always comes a sweaty second, or the penniless
Magica, the Black Knight is a champion of crime, just as Scrooge is a champion
of wealth. His motives are similar to those of uncle Scrooge, as well. The
Black Knight is not just interested in the monetary value of his loot; to him,
the things he has stolen are trophies, just as monetary profit is to uncle
Scrooge. Moreover, unlike his "colleagues", he is a true gentleman, who
respects his opponent and earns his respect.


UNCLE SCROOGE AND ARSENNE LUPIN

Having about the same age as uncle Scrooge--he was born in 1874--, Arsene
Lupin became known at the time the tycoon from Duckburg built his empire. Of
course, his character is quite different. Arsene Lupin is a handsome Belle
Eopque socialite. Apart from being a genius, he is a bit of an actor, and
incurably megalomaniac. To him, applause and admiration count as much as
success. On the other hand, however, he has many common points with the
richest duck in the world. What interests him is the adventure for obtaining
valuable trophies. And, just like scrooge, Arsene Lupin has his own treasury
and trophy room. As we learn in the novel titled _The Hollow Needle_, the
"gentleman burglar" has managed to discover the secret vault where the
mythical treasures of the rulers and kings of France are stored, from Jules
Caesar to Louis the 16th...

Not only that, but thanks to his ingenious burglaries, he has managed to
enrich this treasure with priceless works of art and rare books, which he has
stolen from the largest museums and libraries of Europe. Instead of another
afterword, we will copy the words of Arsene Lupin himself, to his persecutor,
Isidore Beautrelais [sp?] in the _Hollow Needle_: "You do not know all my
abilities... you cannot imagine what achievements I may achieve thanks to my
will and my imagination. Think that my entire life is dedicated to one and
only purpose, that I have worked like a convict to become what I am today, and
to bring into being, in all its perfection, the type of man that I had wanted
to create..." Don Rosa's Arpene Lusin could have said the same words when, at
last, he comes face to face with uncle Scrooge, the same words that uncle
Scrooge would have said...


[Inset]
THE PORTRAIT OF AN OUTLAW

Don Rosa's _The Black Knight_ has been inspired by one of the most fascinating
"villains" of crime literature, the "emperor of thieves", French author's
Maurice Leblanc's Arsene Lupin. A compatriot of Gustave Flaubert--Flaubert's
father was his mother's physician--and of Guy de Maupassant, whom he had met
personally, Maurice Leblanc began his literary career at the end of the 19th
century, writing short stories, novels, and a theater play--his sister,
Georgette, was an actress and the muse of the Belgian theater writer Maurice
Meterling. Apart from some good reviews, young Maurice Leblanc's first
literary attempts did not have any particular appeal. However, they drew the
attention of the editor Pierre Laffitte, who asked him to write a series of
crime stories for the magazine _Je Sais Tout_. Arsene Lupin's first adventure
was published in the first issue of the magazine, in 1907.

[Captions]

[Left, page, top] Don Rosa drew the Black Knight for the French _Picsou_
magazine #325.

[Left page, bottom] Don Rosa's Black Knight: a new charismatic outlaw in the
duck universe.

[Left page middle] Arsene Lupin's adventure in various publications of the
time.

[Right page] Above: Rosa draws in his story a reporter with a bow tie,
freckles, and the characteristic watch that Arpene Lusin steals. [And which
does not go "zee zee" in the Greek edition.] It is Jimmy Olsen, Clark Kent's
young friend in Superman comics!
Below: In the _Black Knight_, Don Rosa also added a characteristic reference
to the real world of comic lovers: "Rapallo's restaurant in Italy is a real
place", he told us. "Its name is _U Giancu_. The paintings decorating the
walls are drawings by famous European and American comics artists. Carl Barks
put his signature on one of the restaurant's walls in 1994. As for the guy
serving the pasta, he is Fausto Oneto [sp?], the restaurant's proprietor!"

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

            From Barks' Beagle Boys to Rosa's Arpene Lusin
                        THE OUTLAWS' UNIVERSE

  Don Rosa is perhaps the most famous and productive creator of duck
  stories in the world today. Our admiration of his work has led us again
  to an extremely interesting conversation with him, regarding his story
  _The Black Knight_.

KOMIX: In _The Black Knight_ you introduce a new "villain" into the duck
universe. Why? Don't you think that there are already enough?

ROSA: Indeed. It wasn't' necessary for me to invent a new villain! I wanted,
however, to reuse the idea of the Black Knight and the suit of armor with a
_Universal Solvent_ lining [sic]. I had written a story based on this idea
about twenty five years ago for a fanzine. I have used more such ideas from
older stories of mine for Duck adventures. *Cash Flow* (_Komix_ #33) is one of
them.


KOMIX: We would also like you to tell us a few words about Carl Barks'
classic "villains" and about the way in which you use them in your stories.

ROSA: I have noticed that in Barks' stories with uncle Scrooge, each one of
the "villains" had a different motive; and this is something I pointed out in
*A Little Something Special* (_Komix_ #139), when I had them all meet
together. The Beagle Boys want the largest part of the loot. They want all of
Scrooge's money. Magica wants the smallest share, only a dime. Finally,
Glomgold doesn't want to have anything from what belongs to Scrooge, he only
wants to ruin him, because he is mad at him and jealous of him. I created
another villain, eleven years ago, for my story _His Majesty McDuck_, who,
however, only wanted to get uncle Scrooge's land. I haven't used him since
that time. As for the Black Knight, he doesn't want to get uncle Scrooge's
money--he is already quite rich--, he only wants to make it seem that he's
stolen it. However, since it is extremely difficult to carry all this money,
his plan will be to destroy it (if I manage to come up again with and idea
about how he may manage to do this...).


KOMIX: Why did you choose Maurice Leblanc's Arsene Lupin as a source of
inspiration for the Black Knight?

ROSA: Good question! Arsene Lupin is completely unknown in America! I don't
think that any books or TV series with Arsene Lupin have ever appeared in
America. I doubt if you could find even one American who's heard of him.
[Well, I could find *one*!] As for me, I learned about Arsene Lupin by reading
articles on foreign comics and movies. And when I needed a master of crime, I
chose Arsene Lupin as a source of inspiration, since my stories are now being
written for the European reading public.


KOMIX: Apart from Arsene Lupin, did you have other sources of inspiration?

ROSA: I had in mind inspector Clouseau from the Pink Panther movies, regarding
Arpene's strange French accent. The fact that Clouseau was a hero in movies
that are known to the American public is a mere coincidence.


KOMIX: We have the impression that Arpene Lusin and uncle Scrooge have many
things in common. There is mutual respect between them, something that is not
true for a character such as Glomgold.

ROSA: Indeed! This is another of your excellent observations! Glommgold is
simply greedy and malicious. In my stories, Scrooge is not greedy, he is
competitive and proud. As for Arpene, he is neither greedy nor malicious. He
doesn't want to hurt uncle Scrooge. Most probably, he likes him! However, he
is too vain, conceited, and proud, and he wants to earn the world's recognition
as the greatest thief of all time. Thus, Scrooge becomes his target... He
look like him, because he does not consider money as important as the
adventure that leads to its acquisition. On the contrary, Glomgold is only
interested in money.


KOMIX: Do you intend to use the Black Knight again?

ROSA: As I said earlier, I will use him again if I manage to come up with a
new idea for a situation in which he will try to destroy Scrooge's money, so
that he can make the world think that he stole it. However, this is an idea
that can be used only once.


[Captions]

[Left] Don Rosa by the hand of Don Rosa!

[Right] The "villain" whom Rosa created for his story _His Majesty McDuck_ is
similar to the Black Night only in appearance. [Actually, since the panels
shown are from _Attaaaaaack!_, the villain is similar to the Black Knight in
more than just appearance!]

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

	Kriton	(e-mail: kyrimis at cti.gr)
	      	(WWW:    http://dias.cti.gr/~kyrimis)
-----
"This is not a war, this is a scientific application of ballistics."
-----




From komix43 at hotmail.com  Mon Oct 30 20:42:21 2000
From: komix43 at hotmail.com (Apostolis Trikourakis)
Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 21:42:21 +0200
Subject: Where's Don?
Message-ID: <OE48p95fFEumJM5XPxk00001500@hotmail.com>

Dear DCML members

I'd like to know if Don Rosa came back from his trip to Germany. Is anybody
who can give me an answer? Also, I'm looking forward to learn your feelings
about the latest Don's story "The Three Camballeros Ride Again".
Best Wishes

Apostolis Trikourakis, Athens
E-mail: komix43 at hotmail.com & komix at compulink.gr
Web Site: http://www.geocities.com/komixgreekpage
DCML member




From troschke at statistik.uni-dortmund.de  Tue Oct 31 09:45:05 2000
From: troschke at statistik.uni-dortmund.de (Sven-Oliver Troschke)
Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 09:45:05 +0100
Subject: Aku Ankan Juhlakalenteri 2001
Message-ID: <39FE8691.D93A6AD3@statistik.uni-dortmund.de>

Hi, 

would any of the kind Finns here on the mailing list be willing to get
and send me 4 copies of Don Rosa's Finnish 2001 calendar (the one we
discussed some weeks ago). I tried to order it from Germany, but I did
not succeed. I could send German stuff or money in exchange.

Please contact me by private e-mail.

Thanks in advance
Sven




From donrosa at iglou.com  Tue Oct 31 14:07:32 2000
From: donrosa at iglou.com (Don Rosa)
Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 08:07:32 -0500
Subject: digest #305
References: <200010311100.MAA31538@numerus.ling.uu.se>
Message-ID: <004f01c0433b$8941dba0$adefffcc@default>

> From: "Apostolis Trikourakis"
> I'd like to know if Don Rosa came back from his trip to Germany. Is
anybody
> who can give me an answer?

Yeah, he's back, I think I saw him this morning in the bathroom.




From komix43 at hotmail.com  Tue Oct 31 14:39:36 2000
From: komix43 at hotmail.com (Apostolis Trikourakis)
Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 15:39:36 +0200
Subject: Digest #305
Message-ID: <OE40fGy6zCHdXcQw8qB000019e4@hotmail.com>

"Someone" [(;) he he] wrote:
>>>Yeah, he's back, I think I saw him this morning in the bathroom.

Gosh, I saw him in my bathroom too! He was holding all his unpublished - in
Greece - stories and he was laughing :-)

Welcome back Don :-)

Best Wishes

Apostolis Trikourakis, Athens
E-mail: komix43 at hotmail.com & komix at compulink.gr
Web Site: http://www.geocities.com/komixgreekpage
DCML member




From tuu__a at hotmail.com  Tue Oct 31 18:07:26 2000
From: tuu__a at hotmail.com (Tuukka =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Kuusij=E4rvi ?=)
Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 17:07:26 GMT
Subject: help,hilfe and apua
Message-ID: <F189Ijn04x29xDbH8J000000c6b@hotmail.com>

how can i go out of this mailing list!!! how!?!
_________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at 
http://profiles.msn.com.




From komix43 at hotmail.com  Tue Oct 31 19:30:17 2000
From: komix43 at hotmail.com (Apostolis Trikourakis)
Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 20:30:17 +0200
Subject: help,hilfe and apua
Message-ID: <OE46yeKzGZuNY1SWoBD00001d45@hotmail.com>

>>>how can i go out of this mailing list!!! how!?!

Easy: Click "Get me Outta Here!", then "Yes, I hate DCML" and finally click
"Unsubscribe from that #@!##:-(@% DCML!"
Then press the "Apply" button and you're ready...

Not Very Best Wishes

Apostolis Trikourakis, Athens
E-mail: komix43 at hotmail.com & komix at compulink.gr
Web Site: http://www.geocities.com/komixgreekpage
DCML member




From mymoonisthebest at yahoo.com  Tue Oct 31 19:56:45 2000
From: mymoonisthebest at yahoo.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?Demetris=20Papadopoulos?=)
Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 10:56:45 -0800 (PST)
Subject: 'miky mysterio' collector
Message-ID: <20001031185645.1643.qmail@web10104.mail.yahoo.com>

Hi all,

I am in search of some specific 'Miky Mysterio' issues
(in Greek). Can anyone provide information (or even
better the issues...)?

Demetris Papadopoulos

=====
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
  Demetris Papadopoulos
  -Arkturos-
  76th Scout Troop of Strovolos
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Messenger - Talk while you surf!  It's FREE.
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From eliot508 at yahoo.com  Tue Oct 31 21:54:59 2000
From: eliot508 at yahoo.com (F. A. Elliott)
Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 12:54:59 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Donald In The "Hall of Road Kill..." Huh?
Message-ID: <20001031205459.7392.qmail@web2002.mail.yahoo.com>

I have a public access tv show in Evansville, IN.
There's a weekly segment called the "The Hall of Road
Kill." It's a collection of odds and ends I find on
the side of the road when I'm out riding my bike. I
bring them home, clean them up, and assign them points
and an honored place in T.H.O.R.K. 

Ea. playing cards, marbles, coins, toys, cds (that
actually work sometime), keys, a working green night
glow watch, working Motorola pager, and more. And, I
even have a little theme song I sing when I introduce
the segment.

Anyway, last week while I was out I found a little
stuffed Donald Duck attached to a dilapatated mini
childrens storybook. The book I discarded, but I put
Donald in my "Little Bag of Road Kill" (a slender
black vinel pouch w/clasp attached to a breakwire and
swung around my right handlebar). 

I brought Donald home, set the washer on its lowest
setting, dipped him in detergent, washed him, and put
him with some clothes drying, and took him out as good
as new, and sat him atop a "Clover Valley 'Dr Topper'
Soda Can," where he has a good view of T.H.O.R.K.

So, my question to DCMLs is... How many "points"
should I assign to Donald Duck? I've never found a
Disney character before? Sports cards are worth 5
points, cds are worth 500 points, Keys are worth 1,000
points, a little bottle w/ Hugo calogne is probably
the top pointer at 10,000. So what's a DONALD worth???

Thanks and God bless,

F.A. Elliott. 

=====
The 'one' who has a finger on 'it'... scratches against the mahogany lining of a coffin crying, "I am Jonah! I am Jonah! Spit me back out so I may see and feel the light of day again." And, the levithan does not heed for it knows every great epic must come to an 'end.'
A tasty morsel known as... "understanding."  (F.A. Elliott)

      




__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Messenger - Talk while you surf!  It's FREE.
http://im.yahoo.com/



From komix43 at hotmail.com  Mon Oct 30 23:34:34 2000
From: komix43 at hotmail.com (Apostolis Trikourakis)
Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 00:34:34 +0200
Subject: 'miky mysterio' collector
Message-ID: <OE739RKLpgTFur2iz2M000018f0@hotmail.com>

Demetris Papadopoulos wrote:

>>>Can anyone provide information (or even
>>>better the issues...)?
I can provide you with any information you want, since I have all the
"Mickey Mistirio's"
issues.
Best Wishes

Apostolis Trikourakis, Athens
E-mail: komix43 at hotmail.com & komix at compulink.gr
Web Site: http://www.geocities.com/komixgreekpage
DCML member




From arthurfaria at projesom.com.br  Tue Oct 31 07:11:28 2000
From: arthurfaria at projesom.com.br (Arthur Faria Jr.)
Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 04:11:28 -0200
Subject: Francois: Unidentified Brazilian stories in France
Message-ID: <001001c043b6$14306a40$5cabfbc8@default>

    Fran?ois wrote to Fernando Ventura:

> By the way, in case you recognize the stories, the following are
> unidentified:

Fernando is having troubles with his computer, so I'll
try to answer for him...

> G?o: Les nerfs ? vif , 9 pages, SPG  82

> This is about Gyro making inventions supposed to calm Donald's bad temper.
> Art Verci Rodrigues de Mello (?).
> Characters: Donald, Gyro, Scrooge, Daisy.

It seems to be:

B 780048 GY "Nervosismo patol?gico" (= Pathological bad temper)
9 pages, art: Carlos Edgar Herrero, xapp: GY,DD,DA,US

DD wants an "anti-bad-temper" device and GY comes up with a belt
with a mechanical hand which, among other things, shuts up DD's beak
when a tantrum is eminent. (DD breaks GY's door several times in
this story to complain about that silly invention ;-)

> Donald: Humour ? la une, 6 pages, SPG

> A story with Donald and Fethry at Scrooge's newspaper. Donald and Fethry are
> working on the humour section of the newspaper. Maybe B 860177 or B 830078
> (?).

If it's about a humour CONTEST promoted by the newspaper and managed by
FE, who cheats it submitting an illustration of a funny flower, awarding the
prize
to himself and making all other contestants mad, then it is:

B 840004 US "? concurso de humor, n?o ??" (= It's a humour contest, isn't it?)
6 pages, art: Irineu Soares Rodrigues, xapp: US,DD,FE

     Tchau,
     -- Arthur.






